Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Astarion ending

Ascension should be the bad ending, Astarion has to kill several thousands of innocents in order to become stronger. Such a sacrifice should and did take its toll on his mental state, further worsening his urge to control both his fate and the fates of others.
However. Not ascending him does leave a bad taste in your mouth for two reasons at least:
1. Him remaining a vampire spawn comes with its downsides, one of which is the inability to stay under the sun. Through the course of the game Astarion has a chance to bask in the sun, has other privileges he'd been missing for many decades, and now that the tadpole is gone, everything is ripped away from him again. He has to come to terms with the consequences of his decision, and instead of focusing on that, the game ending plays it off as a joke. It would be great if that scene was somehow balanced.
2. Him not ascending means we have 7k+ vampire spawns going to the Underdark. These are not self-sufficient, strong-willed creatures, we're talking 7k+ tormented souls without any training or experience whatsoever wandering freely somewhere out there. There are numerous ways to get to the surface in Act 1 alone, imagine how many of those 7k+ will eventually climb up and succumb to their hunger. It's an entire evil army we can't even control... Releasing them is considered a good action, but it's stupid as hell, I can't understand why everyone just agrees with it and never brings it up again. Make it not 7k+ at least, that's way too much xd

I immediately engaged headcanon mode and reduced that to 700 (+6) spawn. 7k seems ridiculous for a number of reasons; 700 is still a lot, still a problem, but felt much more reasonable.

It kind of - kind of - makes sense to have that many spawns if we take into account that they've been accumulating for (roughly) 200 years. If we count (roughly), then 7000÷200=35 spawns per year. Seems okay-ish to me. Still... too many overall spawns. The best thing to do would be to reduce Cazador's hunting years from 200 to maybe 100, then reduce the victim count accordingly. It would still be around 3k people, which is still an army... but at least that's not 7k.

Another solution would be to hard lock the victim count to 666, keeping only 'elite' spawns (and eating everyone else). The number would make sense, considering that the ritual itself is of a diabolic origin.

I initially chose to let him ascend to avoid the ABSOLUTE FLOOD of hungry vampires, as it seemed it would cause thousands of deaths and was the difficult-and-complex-but-ultimately-correct-choice, but then I realized Astarion was not actually happy with it and I decided to go back and let the world burn instead ¯\_(?)_/¯

I just can't believe Cazador (well, his minions) getting away with disappearing that many people every year without being caught. Baldur's Gate isn't that big, it's not NYC. It'd be very risky, even if you're just targeting people you think no one will miss (which they definitely don't do - the Gur miss their kids quite a bit!). It seems like a shockingly big number for the sake of being a Shockingly Big Number. Also, IIRC Astarion says he was one of Cazador's first spawn, and describes a victim taken ~170 years ago as one of his own first. That points to a much lower starting rate which slowly ramped up over the years as more "employees" showed up and everyone got better at their "jobs".

You can kill them without ascending him - did you see that option?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know, Cazador has social influence he can use to avoid getting into too much trouble. Also Baldur's Gate might not be the biggest city, but I'm pretty sure it gets plenty of visitors from other areas, some of which can be conviniently snatched before they have a chance to make themselves known. Their first stop would probably be a tavern anyway. I definitely do agree with you when it comes to numbers, though.

Maybe, it happened a while back. That option is kind of... way too cruel, I think? The alternative is very stupid, but I don't want to be responsible for the deaths of 7k+ people XDDD

Astarion tells us that most people don't know Cazador is a vampire lord (how true this is, I'm not sure - apparently some folks know it quite well). If Cazador is trying to keep his status a secret, then needing to use social influence to cover things up is already a failure. Someone has caught on. Someone has acquired knowledge they can use against him. He's been forced to spend some of his own influence to fix things - and who else knows now? It's not a good situation.

Preying on visitors also isn't a very good idea, I think. They're just as likely to have people looking for them as anyone else - in fact, it might be even harder to figure out whether they have powerful friends or family or employers back home, since there's not much opportunity to investigate their background. Wandering vagrants? Probably not a problem. Sailors? Not a bad target - it's a port town, lots of them arriving or departing daily, and I doubt it's unusual for a few to go AWOL while ashore. Criminals on the run (like our squiddy friend eats)? A bit more dangerous, but neither they nor their friends/families are likely to approach the authorities. Those are the groups I'd expect to be targeted. But not too many, not too often.

I didn't ascend him but also I killed the spawn. Might seem a bit strange but to me they were both the better choices. Luckily the Gur leader also agreed (Let Astarion do the talking when she turns up in the lair) so I felt good about it overall. I just had visions of the peaceful myconnids being overun by a bunch of vampires with absolutely no self control as they have no experience in excercising such followed by the rest of the countryside outside the underdark - there are plenty of places where they can come back out.

7k people take up a *lot* of space.

Realistically, Cazador can exploit events that result in waves of refugees. If they have family, people will assume they just didn't make it. If you go to an authority, it can be easily written off.

It doesn't take many corrupt guards to set this up. Just don't count how many people enter the city. Or, have your corrupt guard lead them to "a camp for refugees", human trafficking 101. You can even have the absolute cult be in on this! Gain Cazador's support through calculated terrorism.

That being said... it seems this value exists because "set 10 vampire spawns free in the underdark" may be a lesser evil, but 7k really makes you think. At the same time, given our available responses to ascended Astarion... Larian seems to expect us to be shocked that he changed.

7k people take up a *lot* of space.

Realistically, Cazador can exploit events that result in waves of refugees. If they have family, people will assume they just didn't make it. If you go to an authority, it can be easily written off.

It doesn't take many corrupt guards to set this up. Just don't count how many people enter the city. Or, have your corrupt guard lead them to "a camp for refugees", human trafficking 101. You can even have the absolute cult be in on this! Gain Cazador's support through calculated terrorism.

That being said... it seems this value exists because "set 10 vampire spawns free in the underdark" may be a lesser evil, but 7k really makes you think. At the same time, given our available responses to ascended Astarion... Larian seems to expect us to be shocked that he changed.

These 7000 spawns are quite unbelievable to me, especially because I don’t get to see them. Where are they? Certainly not in these two cells I find. And how did Cazador feed them all for all these years? It’s a miracle Baldur’s gate is still populated.

I really would have liked a cure for vampirism, not only for Astarion but also as a solution for the spawns. Freeing them seems like an absolute crazy idea, yet it is apparently the “good ending”. I tried all other option: killing them or leaving them imprisoned in their cells. None of them felt right. I really wanted a middle option. If not a cure, then a way to imprison them in the mansion and put them under supervision. They could be set free after receiving some training on how to control their urges.
Ok, maybe the mansion is too small for 7000 spawns. However, if they fit into the "cellar", there should be room somewhere I think.

I also would have liked to discuss the 3 vampire lessons with Astarion, that you can discover with wisdom checks when clicking on the skull of Cazador’s old master. It shows that Cazador was once a victim too, how the cycle tends to repeat itself and how it always leads to misery.
It could eventually be used on an ascended Astarion to make him see things differently? I didn’t ascend him. Is there an option to discuss it then?

Astarion doesn’t ascend, you release Cazadors 6 spawn into the Underdark and kill the other 7000, saying they would pose too much of a risk if released. Shadowheart disapproves, Astarion agrees and even the Gur in the end will agree with you that this was the best option. Not a very feel good one though, ut makes a lot more sense.