Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Improving the Balance of Casters

This is a PC RPG game, not a tabletop PC port. The TT game has an entirely different dynamic, including the obligatory multiplayer campaigns, the DM's, and the fact it has no manifested gameplay in a real game environment like a videogame does. I don't care that it's had multiclassing in the rulebook, it can even stay in as an option for versatility, but it should never eclipse the pure classes, over which the entirety of this game's dialogue and reactivity is built.

You may be fine with some melee half paladin parading as warlock, but people who roll warlock for the actual class description in character creation expect a competitive full class, not some pieces meant to be cobbled together with another class.

A game with some IP inspiration is not a religion. It does not require strict scriptural adherence to some holy text. It is a PC singleplayer RPG game and it is free to deviate in design as it best suits it for the balance and gameplay experience of the game.

5th edition is bad game design. There really isn’t any where positive go with it as your base rules design.

I really dispute this. Having extensively played 2nd, 3rd and 5th, I think 5th is by far the best. Indeed a lot of the problems that are in this thread are due to under-considered departures from the rules of 5th edition.

An argument that could SOMEWHAT not sound stupid only in case the changes made were actual improvements.

If anything this should be even more reasons to NOT introduce another dozen of non-committal options, since there was already more than enough freedom/leeway to begin with.

I'm already tired of HAVING to bring astarion every to lockpick worth a damn. He's got a guaranteed spot on my roster because of it. Going somewhere with a sub par group sucks. Gotta take Lae'zel for the creche is annoying.

Yeah they should've kept Shadowheart as Urchin background, as it adds some flexibiliy. Granted not everyone wants to bring her either, but there really wasn't any reason to change the background except to pick skills for those that play her by way of locking in the background.

So a rule set wich castrated spellcaster in a fantasy world is good? It is utter trash! To have only one lvl 6 spell with level 12 is stupid. It is far better than Larians rule set in DOS 2 but they have to buff casters. We neede gear wich gives more lvl. 6 spell slots.

But....you DON'T have to do this. You can have a MC good at lockpicking (or someone else if you respec them.) You can use the spell knock. You can smash things open. In fact, the level of lockpicking skill Astarion gets is massive overkill for like 99 percent of locks in the game. Between all the bonuses you can apply from things like guidance, advantage from gloves of thieving, and the fact that lockpicking, unlike every other skill in the game, allows you to keep rerolling so long as you have thieves kits, even someone with just a moderate dex bonus is fine.


The limited number of spell slots that 5th edition gives you is not at all a "castration." Indeed it's a necessary rebalancing from previous editions (when many more monsters had ways to outright negate magic, or universally high saving throws.) Unlike previous editions, if you choose the right spell, you can almost guarantee it's going to work on a monster. As a caster, you are meant to be choosing your spells judiciously. Just ONE well-placed spell can turn the tide of a battle or make a tough encounter trivial, and often can do so without doing any damage at all.

No idea what point you are trying to make.
Covering bases is the essence of picking a party composition.

And it's not my fault Larian went for the UNFORTUNATE decision of limiting the party slots to four, anyway.

Ive played through BG3 (Im at endboss), without using Astarion at all (except for story quests concerning him). You really dont need him for lockpicking.
- Shadowheart can give you advantage on any skill check (and later also Jaheira) (dex, STR, WIS etc, you have to choose 1), lasts untill long rest.
- There are several sources of Guidance, the strongest being the necklace.
- Laezel can give herself +3 to any skill set for the day, including sleight of hand.
- Theres a pair of gloves that boost your dex to 18 around mid game.
- And theres a ring that gives you +2 to sleight of hand in act 1 (hidden in bushes on a skeleton underneath the toll post somewhere.
- Plus you can also respecc yourself or any companion to have higher dex.

So saying Astarion is a must for lockpicking is just not true, if you fail you can just try again, only thing you are expending are lockpicks, and there are plenty of those, just make sure you buy some if your running low.

Sorry but i play fantasy games because of magic. Without magic it is a medieval simulator. They do not want you to cast spells and this is ridiculous. So did they reduced the amount of attecks for fighter? Why not? In BG3 they do much more damage than any caster.

It's RAW tho.

https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Wizard#content

And we know how people feel about RAW around here.

Why play an Eldritch Knight when a Battlemaster has a near endless supply of scrolls they can cast?

In my opinion, this is a big part of the problem. I would prefer:

1. Far fewer scrolls to begin with, and

2. Only allowing certain classes to use scrolls.

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I would also prefer fewer consumables in general. In my current playthrough, for example, I'm not even in the underdark. I still have plenty of speed potions on me, about 8, I think. And I have the ingredients to craft 11 more any time I want.

Potions of Hill Giant Strength are plentiful, and they can be purchased for about 70 gold a potion.

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I get that Larian has probably done this to appeal to the masses. Maybe that's what the masses enjoy. Fair enough. But I would prefer another difficulty option with far fewer consumables and a restriction on who can use scrolls. (as well as some other options, like ironman and permadeath)

That's the thing though. I don't get a ton of lockpick kits and they're super expensive at the beginning of the game. My bard is that playthrough's lock picker and I fail more often than not. Especially on DC 15+ locks. I rarely find keys for locks, as well.

If I want to take my warlock or sorcerer to do it, I'd have to reroll to get a background with it, because I do not have one that lets me have it, and I cannot take it at reroll. *someone* needs to have it and they're the second highest DEX class in my group(my casters roll 16 main stat and 16 dex usually)

As for knock, it's a 2nd level spell and those are precious to me. I pick up the spell, sure, but right now I just don't have the 2nd level spell slots(level 8 on my highest game) to waste on a ton of knock spells without long resting even more than I already do. I detest doing it after every fight, as that's not practical to me.

What are you talking about? There’s a tonne of great spells in the game, and using them effectively can very often mean more to a fight than whatever raw damage a fighter can dish out. Using a mixture of both usually works best.

Hide behind a wall of fire and pick off whatever is left of anyone daft enough to run through it, hypnotize half the enemies into doing nothing for two turns, summon elemental canon fodder that can teleport around the map tossing mini fireballs, slow or hold enemies, buff your own party, turn the biggest threat into a sheep, etc, etc

Many spells but you can not cast because you only have a few spell slots. I do not want to rest all the time. This is stupid period!

If you have no-one with the skill, haven't found the dex ring or sleight of hand ring remember a hammer is just a heavy set of lock picks.

Yes, I agree with implementing more restrictions. I believe scrolls should be limited by your class's spell list. Additionally, changing 'shove' to an action instead of a bonus action would be beneficial. Also, it might be a good idea to reduce the quantity of magic items for better balance. Sometimes less is more.

That is because of broken mechanics/implementation and overpowered gear, not because of 5e rules.

Between a totally broken Haste implementation, multiclass cheese and the ability to use scrolls you already get very strong martial classes. Add to that totally broken overpowered gear and you get what we have now.

Casters benefit from the broken Haste spell as well, sorcerors admittedly more than wizards but still...

I mean, I don't know what to say. I ran a game without Astarion where the highest lockpick skill I had was a character with 14 dex + proficiency. Between guidance and advantage (which you can get from gloves and spells), and other buffs, it was relatively rare that I encountered a lock that I would need to burn more than a couple thief kits on (and plenty where I got it on the first try.) I basically never ran low on thief kits, though I am an obsessive looter, and I'd often find them in odd places - maybe I just found a bunch more than you because I'd really crawl through every crate. For locks that were too high difficulty, I would smash through them if I could, or use knock. (I had a wizard with me so knowing it wasn't a problem.) That's the thing, you don't have to spam knock on everything. Pick what you can, smash what you can, and knock what you have to. As for the slots being precious....ehhh maybe at lower levels, but it soon stops being a problem. Cantrips basically become stronger damage options than most spells at level 1-2 for much less cost, 1-2 slots are used for utility or defenses anyway. You also get to restore them with arcane charge and get an item pretty early on (in the underdark) that gives you a daily spell slot restoration too. They aren't THAT precious as you level up more. Plus an option is always to have a character (like a barbarian) carry around a chest until you have time to knock it later (or even just send it to camp!) Someone with high lockpick is convenient if you want to open every lock you come across, right away, no waiting, with no resources spent. But it is absolutely, *absolutely* not necessary and I will stand by that.

[quote=schpas]
Sorry but i play fantasy games because of magic. Without magic it is a medieval simulator. They do not want you to cast spells and this is ridiculous. So did they reduced the amount of attecks for fighter? Why not? In BG3 they do much more damage than any caster.

Many spells but you can not cast because you only have a few spell slots. I do not want to rest all the time. This is stupid period!

[\quote]

Sorry, but this is not how Dungeons and Dragons works, period. You are *not meant* to be spamming all your spells in combat all the time. As a caster you are meant to be selecting the right spell for the situation, and even *not using spells if you don't have to* because they are a precious resource. And damage is not everything. Even with all the nerfs Larian piled onto it, a simple level 1 spell like Sleep, cast just ONCE during a battle, can have a huge impact on how it goes. The number of ways casters have of outright disabling the enemy is massive. How about the AoE? Or the summons? I feel like people don't realize just how much even a simple, weak summon actually ties the enemy up. Casters are not designed solely for big, single target damage (though even THEN, RAW, they can still outshine martials there in bursts: it's really this game's absurd itemization for martials and extremely martial-friendly rules that makes them outshine casters in that regard.)

Part of the problem with BG3 is that Larian is currently pushing casters towards the most boring part of spells (doing damage) through a variety of absurd per-missile bonus items that stupidly makes magic missile the best choice to cast 80% of the time, and the (completely inexcusable) fact that a ton of crowd control effects are effectively NERFED BY HUMONGOUS ACTIVE BUGS A MONTH AFTER RELEASE. This is *on top of* the fact that Larian's homebrew *nerfed a bunch of crowd control spells by default already.*

Still, even with ALL that, even with
1. a good chunk of arcane caster's toolset nerfed by Larian's homebrew
2. And then further nerfed by bugs
3. And caster's unique advantage diluted by the fact that everyone can use scrolls
4. And martials favored with completely over the top, absolutely absurd itemization and very generous homebrew that grants them totaly unbalanced additional damage and mobility

Even with all that, I still find my wizard is actually the MVP for a lot of the tougher fights. So no, I do not think, at all, that casters need more slots or they are castrated without them. They are just a limited resource, and you need to use them well.