I honestly don't see Astarion and Halsin as star companions too. I would like an explanation too, if that's ok.
I meant it in the sense of they were the stars of the companions - featured most in publicity and fan worship rather than in game, story-wise. Pre-release Astarion was probably the most talked about companion yet now he is hardly mentioned. Halsin was talked about less (will he be the missing origin character and all that) but now he only features on the forum because his Act 1 and Act 2 quests bork.
Ah, ok, I understand, what you mean. I do agree about Astarion, I mean, he was made to draw in the not so typical DnD crowd, so he was featured widely. I don't really agree about Halsin - apart from the bear memes everywhere, I don't see him often featured outside of talks in this or other BG3 related forums/reddits. And I'm pretty sure, most people remember 'the game has bear sex', but not, who the bear is. You often have to explain, that the 'bear' is actually an elven man.
Before the whole bear thing, he had the "Daddy Halsin" moniker going around.
I don't know *that*, but I do know that when they said NPC's couldn't date each other, they were wrong. My non-player Astarion totally banged non-player Shadowheart at Tieflingfest 2023.
Okay, first, let me go into Avocatus Diaboli mode. This sort of thing actually happened in Bg2, as well. If you were Romancing Aerie and brought Haer Dalis along, he'd steal your girl and there was nothing you could do about it.
I'm glad you brought up the whole Aerie and Haer thing but from what I remember Aerie turns down Haer (and he backs down) if you progressed far enough down her romance route.
Even if that wasn't the case there is a difference between a character that was written with a whole storyline revolving around a love triangle and a romance that was written in your classical BioWare way only for the cuck shit to pop up out of nowhere and after finishing the storyline/contradicting what was established.
But hey, I guess one writers fan-fic overrides the rest of the game I guess.
As for the rest of your post, I did notice the overreliance on modern politics/views or how you call it the 'message' to write stories in recent games but for the most part its been tolerable (for me at lest) it just seems I've reached my limit. Ruining a character for a quick cuck fantasy kinda soured it for me.
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I wasn't thinking of posting again but the funnies thing happened this week. One of my friends finished the game and he was one of those people that were obsessed with Halsin during the EA and the whole daddy thing (He didn't like the Panel from Hell with the bear tho). To paraphrase 'I'm so happy that there is a gay romance that isn't a twink' but even now after having our conversation I cant not laugh at the whole situation.
He was not happy with the character and how the whole story turned out. We talked about the issues with the writing and the problems we had, Orpheus/Emperor etc. but the most fun shit talking we had was around the zoophile.
Onto the main course. I think we both came to the same conclusion, him focusing on Halsin and me on Halsins influence on other characters. (mainly Shadowheart but also Astarion)
Halsin is the OC Do Not Steal of some early 2000 tumblr porn fan fiction:
Poorly written - check
Shallow/no development - check
Super unique (bulky elf with body hair unlike the rest of the elven race) - check
Super talented and everyone praises him (he's the greatest healer despite being incompetent at everything he does throughout the story) - check
Sex god/sex pest (he wants to sleep with everything that walks - he was so good in bed that every drow in the world knows about him) - check
Characters in a story acting out of character for him/story bending over to accommodate him (both Shadowheart and Astarion) - check
Some fucked up fetish that could be a reflection of the writer (cuck/zoophilia) - check
We were both laughing so much at this, I still cant believe that this version of him made it into the game over some other datamined ones. But people thirstin for him (my friend included) got what they wanted, not really XD ( I don't think anyone interested in Halsin wanted him like this)
Just remove his influence from Astarions/Shadohearts story and do a semi rewrite of his character and for the love of good stop it with the zoo shit.
ENOUGH WITH THE BEAR!
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Originally Posted by fylimar
I like to do whole team, but Halsin brings nothing to the table that Jaheira can't too and I liek her more, so he stays mostly in camp.
If given the choice would you rather have a...lets say a halfling bard companion?
Originally Posted by Angelalex242
The Dame MIGHT be exaggerating. In 5E, Aasimar are a PC race notable for being the equal opposites of Tieflings, and having radiant and necrotic resistance.
Oh god, the Aasimars. I still remember my first dip into the world of DnD. I was still a small kid and Neverwinter Nights 2 came out.
My first DnD character was an Aasimar paladin (I know so original lol). Was really disappointed to hear that they would not be playable since I've always saw them as a mirror race to Tieflings.
Originally Posted by rodeolifant
I don't know *that*, but I do know that when they said NPC's couldn't date each other, they were wrong. My non-player Astarion totally banged non-player Shadowheart at Tieflingfest 2023.
That's another weird thing that just seems like an oversite or whatever it is (Larians need for companions to also be player characters. Didn't like it in OS2 don't like it in BG3).
During the Tiefling party you can control your companions as if they were the MC. So unlike your usual everyday adventuring where if you decided to initiate a convo between companions nothing will happen and it will immediately switch the player character but for that party/scene that lock/restriction is gone, weird. (it treats it as if the companion was the MC you were playing and is never brought up again)
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The more I look at it the more it becomes clear that the whole spiel larian gave about treating the companion interaction/romances and overall writing more maturely was just PR and nothing else. But it seems they did hit their target audience, I am so sorry for using this word but coomers. (or maybe not, there has been a lot of complaining about overly sexual companions)
Aylin's maybe not a literal daughter. An Aasimar is descended from a celestial, not a god - that'd make her something more.
Nah, she's probably a descendent of one of Selune's angels and calls Selune 'mother' figuratively, although it comes across like she's drunk the koolaid and actually believes she's her mum. I mean, once you start referring to yourself in 3rd person, your ego is controlling you.
Though if Selune were the actual mother, she'd be a pretty terrible one leaving her daughter in such a state for so long.
(And shouldn't druids have a big issue with her running around Faerun? She's clearly outside the natural order. Maybe Kethric was actually in his right mind to object to his daughter's union.)
As for Jesus posing, I've seen plenty of Catholic depictions in my time. BG3 leans heavily into church imagery with Aylin and Withers. Sorry, but it comes across as cliche.
Okay, first, let me go into Avocatus Diaboli mode. This sort of thing actually happened in Bg2, as well. If you were Romancing Aerie and brought Haer Dalis along, he'd steal your girl and there was nothing you could do about it.
I'm glad you brought up the whole Aerie and Haer thing but from what I remember Aerie turns down Haer (and he backs down) if you progressed far enough down her romance route.
Even if that wasn't the case there is a difference between a character that was written with a whole storyline revolving around a love triangle and a romance that was written in your classical BioWare way only for the cuck shit to pop up out of nowhere and after finishing the storyline/contradicting what was established.
But hey, I guess one writers fan-fic overrides the rest of the game I guess.
As for the rest of your post, I did notice the overreliance on modern politics/views or how you call it the 'message' to write stories in recent games but for the most part its been tolerable (for me at lest) it just seems I've reached my limit. Ruining a character for a quick cuck fantasy kinda soured it for me.
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I wasn't thinking of posting again but the funnies thing happened this week. One of my friends finished the game and he was one of those people that were obsessed with Halsin during the EA and the whole daddy thing (He didn't like the Panel from Hell with the bear tho). To paraphrase 'I'm so happy that there is a gay romance that isn't a twink' but even now after having our conversation I cant not laugh at the whole situation.
He was not happy with the character and how the whole story turned out. We talked about the issues with the writing and the problems we had, Orpheus/Emperor etc. but the most fun shit talking we had was around the zoophile.
Onto the main course. I think we both came to the same conclusion, him focusing on Halsin and me on Halsins influence on other characters. (mainly Shadowheart but also Astarion)
Halsin is the OC Do Not Steal of some early 2000 tumblr porn fan fiction:
Poorly written - check
Shallow/no development - check
Super unique (bulky elf with body hair unlike the rest of the elven race) - check
Super talented and everyone praises him (he's the greatest healer despite being incompetent at everything he does throughout the story) - check
Sex god/sex pest (he wants to sleep with everything that walks - he was so good in bed that every drow in the world knows about him) - check
Characters in a story acting out of character for him/story bending over to accommodate him (both Shadowheart and Astarion) - check
Some fucked up fetish that could be a reflection of the writer (cuck/zoophilia) - check
We were both laughing so much at this, I still cant believe that this version of him made it into the game over some other datamined ones. But people thirstin for him (my friend included) got what they wanted, not really XD ( I don't think anyone interested in Halsin wanted him like this)
Just remove his influence from Astarions/Shadohearts story and do a semi rewrite of his character and for the love of good stop it with the zoo shit.
ENOUGH WITH THE BEAR!
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Originally Posted by fylimar
I like to do whole team, but Halsin brings nothing to the table that Jaheira can't too and I liek her more, so he stays mostly in camp.
If given the choice would you rather have a...lets say a halfling bard companion?
Well, you've got me there . Yes, I vastly would have preferred Helia over Halsin or in fact any character, that didn't change personality completely, if you recruit them, but yeah, mostly Helia. I'm not familiar with early 2000 tumblr porn fanfic and I never even talked to those drow ( which I assume triggers that he tells you about his years as a drow sex slave?), but yeah, I can't deny, that he is not well written and that fans, who wanted him as a companion, like your friend, can't really be satisfied with what they got. I don't think I'll use him in the future, he is bland and has really only the sex thing going for him.
"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."
I mean, once you start referring to yourself in 3rd person, your ego is controlling you.
Wyll disapproves.
You can take him down a peg or three in dialogue. It would've been nice to do the same with Aylin, or at least not admit her into camp without resorting to homicidal murder.
I actually agree with all the points you're making but you're never going to get people to agree with you or get anything changed with inane incel wording you use. I think her willingness to have threesomes/foursomes comes completely out of left field and contradictory to everything in her romance. She won't sleep with you act 3 seemingly because you need to build trust with her but suddenly she's willing to do group sex? It makes zero sense whatsoever. The guy who wrote Shadowheart also wrote Halsin so it leads me to believe he's just a self-insert for him and that's why she's so willing to do. And because of the fact that Halsin reads as a self-insert I don't consider anything involving the two of them to be part of Shadowheart's character. It's just weird shit this guy put in the game for himself which is a shame writer's shouldn't do that.
I actually agree with all the points you're making but you're never going to get people to agree with you or get anything changed with inane incel wording you use. I think her willingness to have threesomes/foursomes comes completely out of left field and contradictory to everything in her romance. She won't sleep with you act 3 seemingly because you need to build trust with her but suddenly she's willing to do group sex? It makes zero sense whatsoever. The guy who wrote Shadowheart also wrote Halsin so it leads me to believe he's just a self-insert for him and that's why she's so willing to do. And because of the fact that Halsin reads as a self-insert I don't consider anything involving the two of them to be part of Shadowheart's character. It's just weird shit this guy put in the game for himself which is a shame writer's shouldn't do that.
Ah the internets favorite insult strikes again. Despite my 'incel' writing as you have dubbed it the reality will not change, will it? Cuck, zoophile, degenerate are all words with meaning and words that simply apply to the situation at hand. Sure I could've used a more flowery language but the description I gave was more than enough for you and others to agree with.
I don't see why I should be more diplomatic in my wording when dealing with people who would ruin characters with a disgusting fetish that is zoophilia. (It is a form of degeneracy and no tip-toeing around it will change that) As for the dreaded cuck word? Is it not cucking for a partner (in this case companion) to sleep and lust after another while in a established relationship? (Even more malicious is to write all of that after that characters story was already finished/established)
In all honesty I won't hold my breath when it comes to these changes being made, despite the writers talent that he has show throughout Shadowhearts story he is still catering to certain type of audience. Would it be nice? Sure, but at the end of the day it is only a game.
Don't take this response as me being snappy because I don't mean it that way. Maybe my wording isn't the best suited for changing minds or garnering support but if you think you are able to convey the situation any better and what you would like to see changed feel to free to do so otherwise the cuck romance will stay as it is.
I actually agree with all the points you're making but you're never going to get people to agree with you or get anything changed with inane incel wording you use. I think her willingness to have threesomes/foursomes comes completely out of left field and contradictory to everything in her romance. She won't sleep with you act 3 seemingly because you need to build trust with her but suddenly she's willing to do group sex? It makes zero sense whatsoever. The guy who wrote Shadowheart also wrote Halsin so it leads me to believe he's just a self-insert for him and that's why she's so willing to do. And because of the fact that Halsin reads as a self-insert I don't consider anything involving the two of them to be part of Shadowheart's character. It's just weird shit this guy put in the game for himself which is a shame writer's shouldn't do that.
Ah the internets favorite insult strikes again. Despite my 'incel' writing as you have dubbed it the reality will not change, will it? Cuck, zoophile, degenerate are all words with meaning and words that simply apply to the situation at hand. Sure I could've used a more flowery language but the description I gave was more than enough for you and others to agree with.
I don't see why I should be more diplomatic in my wording when dealing with people who would ruin characters with a disgusting fetish that is zoophilia. (It is a form of degeneracy and no tip-toeing around it will change that) As for the dreaded cuck word? Is it not cucking for a partner (in this case companion) to sleep and lust after another while in a established relationship? (Even more malicious is to write all of that after that characters story was already finished/established)
In all honesty I won't hold my breath when it comes to these changes being made, despite the writers talent that he has show throughout Shadowhearts story he is still catering to certain type of audience. Would it be nice? Sure, but at the end of the day it is only a game.
Don't take this response as me being snappy because I don't mean it that way. Maybe my wording isn't the best suited for changing minds or garnering support but if you think you are able to convey the situation any better and what you would like to see changed feel to free to do so otherwise the cuck romance will stay as it is.
Well I mean I just don't care that much to do a write up like this. While I would prefer that she doesn't agree to it and I think it's completely out of character that she does I never asked her to do it in the first place nor did I even consider asking her to have a threesome/foursome with Halsin or the Drow twins. As far as I'm concerned this doesn't even exist as I would never trigger this when I play the game.
I've reached the conclusion that Halsin the companion becomes too much a Gary-Stu. The game world reality warping around him and companions acting completely out of character is exhibit A, which by itself convicts and condemns him. Halsin doppelganger begone!
Halsin the camp follower however, as set up in EA, is perfectly fine and welcome.
After almost finishing my playthrough and seeing some banters and other things related to him. Apparently, the character that until you finish her quest wouldn't even want to think about sharing (unless I missed something that would lead to that?) is suddenly all thirsty for him and to the point to make it loud and clear it seems in that twin drow dialogue and approvals/disapprovals. So... what's the whole point of romancing her if she will probably just be thinking about the bear? I am just disappointed.
While I would prefer that she doesn't agree to it and I think it's completely out of character that she does I never asked her to do it in the first place nor did I even consider asking her to have a threesome/foursome with Halsin or the Drow twins. As far as I'm concerned this doesn't even exist as I would never trigger this when I play the game.
Unfortunately I have to be the bearer of bad news. As much as I like the mindset of 'out of sight, out of mind' I'm afraid it doesn't really or fully work here. Or maybe it just doesn't work for me.
Because you see, Shadowheart flirts with Halsin during that one banter no matter what. So instead of rejecting his advances like you would expect her to, she instead welcomes them. If someone needs a refresher, this banter happens right after the romance is completed. Not before, not during but after. (So after the whole I want to spend the rest of my life with you/you are my true love conversation)
You are right that not having the foursome/fivesome/poly relationship is entirely up to the player and a players choice but what throws the wrench into this whole thing and ruins it for a lot of people are the words she uses and what those words imply. (if someone doesn't know what she says, look at my OP screenshots)
Like with Kagha, whether you discovered it or not she WAS working with the shadow druids an the same applies to Shadowheart. Whether you saw it or not she still has sexual thoughts and fantasies about Halsin while in a relationship with the MC (male or female) no matter what.
Like you said in makes no sense that she would say anything like that or be okay with it seeing how it contradicts her entire character, and yet its still there.
Originally Posted by portionbeans
It's just weird shit this guy put in the game for himself which is a shame writer's shouldn't do that.
I love that you said this. It shows how obvious it is to everyone what the writer tried to do. And he was rather sneaky with it, wasn't he? Putting it all at the end, it is as if there are two Shadowhearts. True Shadowheart for her story/romance and a doppelganger made for Halsin.
Originally Posted by Avallonkao
After almost finishing my playthrough and seeing some banters and other things related to him. Apparently, the character that until you finish her quest wouldn't even want to think about sharing (unless I missed something that would lead to that?) is suddenly all thirsty for him and to the point to make it loud and clear it seems in that twin drow dialogue and approvals/disapprovals. So... what's the whole point of romancing her if she will probably just be thinking about the bear? I am just disappointed.
And there it is, the million dollar question. Why would anyone want to romance this character? Why would anyone want to romance Shadowheart only for her to do a 180 after he story was done. I don't think anyone likes the idea of going through 3 acts of 'I love you main character, you're my true love bla bla' only to be blindsided with a 'Sike! I was always thinking of Halsin.'
And there it is, the million dollar question. Why would anyone want to romance this character? Why would anyone want to romance Shadowheart only for her to do a 180 after he story was done. I don't think anyone likes the idea of going through 3 acts of 'I love you main character, you're my true love bla bla' only to be blindsided with a 'Sike! I was always thinking of Halsin.'
And there it is, the million dollar question. Why would anyone want to romance this character? Why would anyone want to romance Shadowheart only for her to do a 180 after he story was done. I don't think anyone likes the idea of going through 3 acts of 'I love you main character, you're my true love bla bla' only to be blindsided with a 'Sike! I was always thinking of Halsin.'
I COULD NOT AGREE MORE. THIS DEFINITELY RUINED MY GAMEPLAY!
I did not even get to finish my good guy playthrough romancing shadowheart because by the time I got to the drow twins, I got a rejection from both Halsin and Shadowheart when I disagreed doing an ORGY with them. Like WTF. After all that story and character development for shadowheart, she shoulde be monogamous and loyal to the main character, she is scared of being alone and would not want the main character to leave her after all she has been through. But then, she suddenly says she dreams of sleeping with Halsin "Not once, twice, three times or even more than that" WTF. I was disgusted when she said this. By the time I got to this point I already formed a connection with her. I think her writing is really good, what she has been through and discovering all her memories back. But no, she'd rather sleep with a bear and do an orgy. I just wish maybe they give the players more freedom in this, like what if her reaction depends if you make her evil or make her a good character? Like if she is good, or selunite maybe monogamy?? then if she is with Shar maybe they can put that idea of polygamy and cheating with Halsin in. But comon how can this do this. I am so disappointed, I could not go through with my playthrough. I had to delete my character, restart a new game as the Dark Urge, and kill her in her sleep. Then on to romancing Minthara. Shouldve named her ShadowCuc**** for all I know. She left a bad taste in my Mouth...
Good thing I read the part that you wrote down about where she flirts with Halsin even after completing her romance. That would be even more hell!
Anway, I am glad I get to share this same sentiment with someone. I completely agree with everything you just wrote down. Larian should consider things like this more.!!
Writing like this makes me glad I uninstalled the game.
I will wait for Definitive Edition and if this horrible writing stays in, I would rather let Halsin die or kill him myself than be cocked by him.
In EA, he was known as a Daddy Halsin, but I considered it a meme and nothing more. Making him a full fledged companion was a mistake, he should have stayed as a npc with maybe a fling or two, if you help him out.
Not...... this.
Last edited by Annoyed Player; 09/09/2305:34 AM. Reason: Typos
This is pretty funny, especially if Halsin and Shadowheart have the same writer.
Halsin never appealed to me so I missed out on this. I agree Halsin reads as a self insert, and really how 12-year old me would have written my character. "I'm an elf but I'm super tall and jacked. I'm really powerful and super famous and I have a huge dick." Imagine thinking you're getting an origin/romance moment and it's actually just Shadowheart complaining about not getting to bang Halsin LOL.
Did the writer for Halsin/SH write any other characters? Would be interesting if they are the only pair to show this behavior.
None of the origin characters are cool with you romancing another origin character. Shadowheart ends the relationship if you romance Minthara She isn't pleased but doesn't end the relationship if you bang Mizora She mentions wanting you to herself at least the first time during the drow twins if you haven't had the grotto scene
She certainly doesn't lament or even mention the others should you reject their advances. Nor is there any possibility of a poly hookup with Minthara/Mizora. Again LOL i couldn't imagine getting a "Shadowheart disapproves" when you turn down a bear threesome.
edit: I also have no idea how SH responds if you romance Ralph's whatever in the house of hope
. Yes, I vastly would have preferred Helia over Halsin or in fact any character, that didn't change personality completely, if you recruit them, but yeah, mostly Helia.
