Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Playing as Karlach gets you less content? [Spoilers]

On my first playthrough I made a badass woman barbarian, so I didn’t get to have Karlach in my party as much. So next I decided to play AS our awesome tiefling barbarian (avatar Karlach] to get the full experience.

But… it seems her questline and story moments are cut even shorter if you play as her? (which seems absurd…)

Instead of getting the gradual engine upgrade in which she can get a kiss, before she can fully touch, she jumps straight to getting a full upgrade to be able to touch, with no extra moments in between. Then, doesn’t matter who you’re romancing as Karlach, Dammon is the first person who touches you (you get no choice in the matter lol).

Her romance with other origins is full of weird moments where it seems the game ignores her storyline. I am romancing Astarion as Karlach (I know I’m into weird pairings, leave me be), and after a really fun and well written start during the emerald grove party, their story kind of falls apart. Dialogue suggest they had sex when they didn’t, Astarion has nothing to say when Karlach is told she is dying, and she does not get the “first time touched” moment with him. When they do touch, is like it’s nothing special and treated as they’ve already touched lots before (same cinematics and dialogue as custom tav). Since being alone and unable to touch for so long is a huge part of Karlach’s personal story and quest, the lack of this moment is very disappointing. Feels there’s a missing bit here.

I’m afraid to go through the entire game again to have the exact same content despite her story, and at the end Karlach and Astarion ending up of separated without as much as an acknowledgment lol. Like, Astarion runs from the sun, Karlach either runs to hell or dies and that’s it. That would be even more unfulfilling and just plain sad than her regular companion story… (cause here the REAL tragedy is never having been into the elf’s tight pants lol)

Did anyone else play as her, romanced other origins, and how did it go? Was there Karlach-specific moments?

Or did anyone else played avatar Karlach and noticed some strange story moments or other plot holes? I noticed quite a few, unfortunately.


PS: During the tiefling party after Emerald Grove, I went around camp to see how the origins romance options went around to see what would happen. Gale’s moment doesn’t change from custom tav story since there’s no touching involved. With Shadowheart there’s a moment they mention they wish they could touch but would be patient. I skipped Laezel cause she didn’t like me lol. And Astarion had a real interesting new dialogue for chatting up Karlach, so he seemed like the choice that’d bring more interesting new dialogue options in the future (which did not happen, unfortunately).

Yeah, I tried a few times - but I found that the Origins stories work *way* better as NPC's as they do the Main Character.

For one, the main character is silent everytime he/she needs to decide something. Then, there are these moments added like 'contemplate telling someone youér a Sharran' etc, which are pointless, because just like the Dark Urge: nobody cares. At least a Tav can care, and for that matter - a Selunite Tav has a way better Shadowheart Story than Shadowheart herself does.

Then. Romancing another NPC triggers *their* romance, just like Tav would, and not yours, so.. You miss out on the personalized content there, too. I tried playing as Gale for a bit, but couldn't find *any* Gale specific lines all the way into the Grove and rerolled. I had kind of figured you'd get another fun scene where he'd end up in the Portal and someone would pull him out, but.. No. Just the same stuff.

I think Larian heavily reworked the way origins work here relative to DOS2. Before, companions in DOS2 had minimal characterisation and character moments, so you didn’t miss out on anything choosing to play as them. In fact, you gained more content playing as an origin than a Tav. In BG3, companions have more depth and expression than even in other major character-driven RPGs. As a result, choosing to play as the companion costs you the depth of that companion’s performance and how that performance integrates with the story (like Karlach’s ecstatic response to touching for the first time).

The silent player character is designed to give the player more agency and choice in dialogue options and roleplay projection. It comes at the cost of an acted performance.

I think it was Swen who suggested people play a custom first. This makes sense because then you get every origin’s powerhouse performance and depth. Then on subsequent playthroughs, you switch the camera and ask yourself what if X companion had been in charge of the group.

This could be a Karlach specific problem, though, as I’ve heard Shart has unique dialogue options in romance as an Origin.

I was expecting that much of the interactions would be the same, but the thing is, in Karlach’s case, some interactions don’t work since she cannot be touched until the start of act 2. So, if there was no change whatsoever, in some instances logic itself would be broken. So there were a few changes, thankfully, but just at the start. Afterwards the story flowed as any custom tav, and that left a lot of “wait, but HOW?!” moments, which is why I was threw off the experience, I guess.

I can’t compare because this is the first game I play by them. I also understand the choice of the silent main character and the massive amount of work to make the companions interactions the way they did in BG3, so I wasn’t expecting an entire new game when I went to play avatar Karlach.

The thing that threw me off with playing as her was more to the fact that she has specific issues, like her engine condition, that “break” certain plot development and moments with companions if left as is (she can’t sleep with people, for example). They did change that during the first act, for which I am grateful, otherwise it would be a horrible plot hole. She does pet scratch, touches people occasionally and other things that are weird considering her story, though.

But as I get near the end of Act 2 as her, the interactions are all the same as any tav, even when they don’t make sense for Karlach.

Don’t get me wrong, most interactions work, but when they don’t, they really don’t, in a way that I think would not happen with other origins. That is the bit that is bothering me, and I haven’t found many people playing as her to see if they noticed it.

I haven't finished Act 1 with an Origin Character so can;t comment too much. I understand why the MC is always silent, and I understood very, very rapidly how that affected my Origin play...


.. But I'll stand by it that they work much better as NPC companions than as a Player Character. And the weirdest thing is, is that many of the unique content, you just get while controlling a non-player Origin. Say, entering the Goblin base whilst controlling Shadowheart - you get the whole 'You feel this and that about Selune', and it follows by her speaking up to the Main Character about how she hates the place.

ANd, knowing this, I now often select a companion whom I suspect mioght have something going on in certain places. BUt suspect I'll never do a full run *as* an Origin.

I do understand that. The issue is with Karlach specifically, since her dialogue options are contradictory and her quest, which is already short and simple, is cut even shorter if you play as her.

She mentions many times how she can’t touch, even a handshake, yet she shakes gale’s hand, pets the dog; the dialogue options first make clear she can’t have sex, then change to mentioning she has had sex before. It is all over the place… quite disappointing since I did not notice continuity mistakes this bad with anyone else, even non playable origins.

It is as if someone dropped the ball with (avatar) Karlach’s writing, specifically.

Does anyone know why Zariel just gives up on getting Karlach back? It sounds like that was supposed to be her main plot, even from EA days.

One thing that surprised me was how, even if there is a fully acted Diaglogue option for certain scenes, we don't get those options as dialogue prompts.

I thought for example that we might have a chance to play towards type (by repeating stuff they'd say normally) or against type, but still saying Karlach type things. I don't know trading out some "fuck yeahs!" for the occassional "fuck no!" or whatever, but you never get that chance. The dialogue branch isn't customized that way. I feel like if you play as a Karlach then the regular Tav dialogue prompts should dissappear or something.

Durge is interesting not so much for the off the rails storyline, but because almost immediately you get some different stuff happening which differentiates that playthrough from a Tav run.

Currently playing as an Origin feels almost creepy to me, like piloting a robot or a mind controlled marionette. You lose all the banter interjections and this makes the Origin characters as Protagonists feel rather souless compared to their Origin Companion versions. Not for diabolical reasons in this case, but just cause they all seem to lose their spirit when you take over. It's actually the opposite of how I thought it would feel. I'm less connected to Origin stories which seem shallow compared to the same character as a companion.

Karlach's engine could have been really interesting here. Her first scene with Gale could have him say something like 'Hot! Hot hot!' and then when he asks about whether you're a Cleric, maybe there's an extra line or two there ya know. Scratch has an endearing first scene with her if she's a companion, but if you play as her you just get the standard Tav stuff there.

I still think the water should start to steam and boil whenever she steps in the River, like a portable hot tub.

Rage should periodically be a dialogue branch for her, where we can lean into that and ramp it up.

Of all the Origin characters, she's the furthest off the beaten path to recruit as a companion, so her initial interactions with the others on the beach and at the grove needs a bit more.

I had a similar experience with Shadowheart as an Origin. I lost interest because it didn't seem to be all that different from a Tav run. I think it needs to feel substantively distinct from a regular Tav playthrough, like from very early on Act I, otherwise I don't get the point.

To me playing as the Origin doesn't feel like it's giving me more insight into the character or inhabiting that role in a meaningful way. All the Origins are dropping the ball on this. The fact that we have Durge as an Origin but not as a companion, or Jaheira as a companion but not as an Origin, confuses the issue further. I think The Dark Urge should appear right next to Custom Tav, with the other companions below these in the portrait layout of the New Game screen. Or Durge should be an actual companion we can meet and recuit somewhere, so it makes sense.

People made a fair bit of noise about the development energy spent on Origins perhaps taking away from other stuff during EA, but I don't think that happened here. If anything it just seems sorta half baked, like a plan that didn't come to fruition.

It's not like every line of dialogue is acted out here, which is what I thought playing as an Origin would entail. Karlach highlights this more than the other Origins, but they all have the same sort of thing going down. Maybe the endings or stuff in Act III is different, but I couldn't really stick it out long enough to find out. The custom Tav felt in every way like the more rewarding experience and the Origins are much more charming and engaging as companions.

Karlach has less story than others yes
playing AS Karlach changes how that story is told yes

note playing as any of the origin characters gives you a different storyline so you always get more [story] from playing Tav

Speaking of Karlach, how is she petting Scratch act 1?

I tried figuring it out, but I saw no comment nor clue anywhere as to why. Also found it strange that there’s mention Zariel gave up on Karlach, but if she returns to hell, Zariel seems to immediately go after her.

I was expecting some resolution for that bit too.

I question that every time I pet him haha

She seems to touch a lot more people than she should be able to. I guess some dialogues/animations were overlooked for her, despite of her condition.

I hope they fix that over time. It breaks immersion and plot logic.

I also expected some added “spice” according to the Origin’s personality - the same options and outcomes, but phrased a bit differently, at least with some frequency. It does happen sometimes in Act 1, but afterwards just blends into regular tav dialogue. Must be complicated to do that, but having it once in a while would encourage you to keep playing as Origin for longer, I guess.



Yea, Durge it gives you “new” content just enough to keep you interested in the play. And as you said, Durge feels like it should’ve been an option in the menu beside custom tav - it would make much more sense than listing it with the origins.


Definitely felt this with avatar Astarion. Started a run with him and it felt quite odd since as companion he’s so full of character. He DOES have a few unique moments/cinematics right off the bat that you don’t see with him as a companion, which was quite fun. But after that it goes through the regular tav route and feels “soulless” as you said. It’s kinda wearing the Origin’s skin.


Exactly. If Gale had a reaction to shaking her hand, it already would’ve been believable. Karlach gets the dialogue option to ‘concentrate to not burn him’ or something when pulling him, but after her effort to pull him without hurting him, the no-problem handshake comes and you get like ‘Wait, what?’

If she had a moment of WANTING to pet Scratch but having to hold back, calling him ‘good boy’ instead, would also add to showing how her engine limits her daily life interactions. She can’t touch others, pet animals or show affection physically. It’d make her personal story clearer and even help the player empathize with her problem, perhaps. (I mean, wanting but not being able to pet a dog… no one deserves this)

I also think she should sizzle a bit in the water! I understand that she gets hotter whenever she is raging or feeling strong emotions, so perhaps she could steam a bit during those moments. And I bet she’d be awesome heater in the shadow cursed lands if they can’t keep a fire going :p

I’m at the start of Act 3 as Karlach now, and nothing else that happened so far (dialogue or cinematics) is specific or new to her. From what you’ve mentioned, it seems this is the case for all origins, with a few exceptions here and there.

The aggravating issue of Karlach being presented with the same dialogue options as tav is the fact that she is the only Origin that can’t touch anyone during act 1/2. So what she gets is not only the empty feeling of a ‘soulless’ origin because of how the game works, but her story also has holes in the logic of dialogue.

Basically: she can’t touch, but animation shows her touching. She can’t have sex, but dialogue says she has had. Too many contradictions that feel like just oopsies.

For example, if you play Karlach and romance Astarion, after the tiefling party night, the dialogue options between them are the same as the regular tav. That breaks the story because Karlach can’t have possibly slept with him - or anyone else. And yet, the game still continues to give you options as if she had - because tav (or the other origins) would have.

I wonder if there was a way to adjust these things a bit, rephrasing lines here and there, and add some “flare” to the way the dialogues are written when they’re said by origins. I suppose it’s a lot of work, but would give us an extra encouraging to play as them I guess.


I’ve seen some cool stuff in the first hour or two of playing Astarion that gave me some extra insight about him. But I haven’t seen that level of content in Karlach’s play at all… Even for Astarion, who seems more fleshed out as a character, that might be it (I can’t say since I’ve not went much farther with him).
I’m not sure it’s worth going through an entire play as him (or other origin) to get the rare cinematic or dialogue option, since the rest is pretty much a repetition of tav. Can’t tell for sure, though, cause I just played him for a bit - maybe there’s more. I do know that unfortunately as Karlach there is close to nothing extra there.

The only insight I saw in Karlach is a monologue moment when she finds the first soul coin, pondering whether she should use them or not. Pretty meh.

One day I’ll reach the end of her playthrough, but it’s gonna take a while.

Playing as Astarion felt the same way, like something was missing. You also get less interactions with your romantic partner than a Tav has romancing Astarion, which was deeply unsatisfying. That cool stuff you saw in the first hour is about all you get before it turns into regular Tav dialogue options. You don't even get your origin's camp tent. It's just missing, which made me sad.

You get an extra cutscene about Cazador and you get to pick who you nom nom on in camp the 1st time, but that's about it Act 1. I succeeded my roll (DC 10! Guess Tav really did get lucky waking up!) and never woke up my companion, so no one knew I was a vampire. I was always given an option to come clean to my companions, when talking to them, but no one had anything new to say. I saved and outed myself to all of them and everyone gave a different "Well, it was kinda obvious what you were, wish you felt comfortable enough to tell me sooner" speech. Yet not one single mention of my "strangely vampiric demeanor" before that. You do start with the option to bite during combat, and doing so "outs" you to the party, but even doing it that way just gets you a single "Gasp! You're a vampire!" line mid battle from random companion, then the "I knew what you were speech" from whichever one spoke during combat. Went back to my 'no one knows" save and I was able to hide what I was until the Gur hunter in the swamp. After he "outed" me, random companion gave the "I knew what you were" speech, same as if I came out to them.

If you elect to feed on an animal that 1st night instead of a companion (it's an option), then you find the bloodless pig corpse the next day, but no one comments on it or investigates it further in any way. So you miss even the foreshadowing of that moment. Would have been nice to have been at least a little worried about someone picking up on what you were.

And that's it, you don't even get an option to feed on your romantic partner nightly like Tav has with him if they are romancing him, which was disappointing (don't look at me like that, I want to know what the hell the Gyth tastes like!) I romanced Lae and got her intimate scene but didn't get to bite her. You get none of Astarion's scenes trying to entice Tav to trust them or feed on them. I didn't even get to get drunk on eating a bear. I also couldn't command the gnoll leader to eat themselves. That dialogue tree didn't pop for me at all when interacting with them. Maybe origin characters are locked out of certain things? Gonna try again on another origin to see.

The night of the tiefling party, I didn't get a single invite for anyone's "camp romance" scene. TBF, not sure if because another origin can't get it or because I was flirting with everyone. (I didn't imagine Astarion would limit his available snacks by shunning anyone's interest in him. Of course, this was before I knew you can't snack on your romance partner.) Although, I'd already slept with Lae at this point and she was indifferent to me during the party, but flirty before and after it. Felt weird.

Act 2, meeting the Oblodra was disappointing because you don't get any of the back and forth about biting her or no, not even with your romantic partner. Even the scar reveal was disappointing since no one said anything about the scars until Raphael casually mentions them while offering info in exchange for a dead demon. Got the same dialogue about being a pawn in Cazador's game from everyone in camp as if I was Tav asking them about it.

I played his storyline to the end and ascended. Got a few extra lines from Caz, the same lines from companions as if they were there with Tav about not murdering everyone, and no one tried to stop the Ascension after it started. Back at camp, didn't even get the option to make my romance character a spawn, like Astarion has with Tav. (A vampire gish Wyll was gonna be awesome! I could fight with Mizora about who get's his soul!) Wyll gave his "I'm disappointed in you" speech if you ascend but you don't lose any approval with him. He doesn't even break up with you! Guess I could always play AS Wyll and romance Astarion to see that, but was sad I couldn't do it as Astarion. Actually, not even sure it'll be an option. Gonna do a SH origin and romance him to see if origins are just locked out from that possibility. I'll update this once I know.)

And, since the character you're playing doesn't actually speak much, you missing hearing the snarky ways he says his lines.

I think it would be slightly more interesting if you could pick which origin romantic scenes played if you are an origin romancing an origin and at least got to hear them say the lines they normally would when you pick those as your option. So, overall, playing as origin wasn't nearly as much fun as playing Tav or Durge. If you really wanna see their extra dialogue, I'd recommend just beelining to whatever part of the story is crucial to the origin you're playing, and skipping the hours of side quests since there doesn't seem to be anything unique for an origin vs Tav on those.

The coolest thing about playing Astarion though? Letting Volo do eye surgery on me so I ran around with 1 blue eye and 1 red eye. It looked really neat and if I only saw him from the side, I could imagine what he looked like before he was turned. I didn't bother going further after the Ascension since I was already let down leading up to it.

That's what I did for my Karlach run.
Was very disappointed that there wasn't some significantly better ending for her on origin.
I had been hopeful for something after being so disappointed with her endings on my other plays, but after seeing how origin kinda sucks the life out of whoever is being played I just started ignoring anything that wasn't main plot to get through it faster.

(Also extra disappointing romancing Wyll as Karlach. I thought it might be cute but he's way too slow a burn for a girl who is on fire.)

It's just weird to me how some scenes, particularly those relevant to an origin's plot, still have more attention in a Tav run.

Like when Tav talks to Gandrel, Astarion joins the cutscene and tries to steal it for himself - animated, interjecting, hes extremely present.
So it's weird to me that some of the animations didn't get kept for Astarion's origin during th at conversation. He just kinda stood there like any other convo and let narrator do the heavy lifting even tho I know he has voice lines for some of this.

I love when the character unique dialog options pop up in Origins, but they're so rare that it felt like the Karlach experience was more unique simply because it was my first run as a barbarian rather than the fact that it was Karlach specifically.

This option was available to me when playing on SH, so it was prolly just a glitch for Astarion.


Got several invites playing as SH, so another glitch with my Astarion origin run.


Was able to become a spawn as SH. No new dialogue, same as becoming a spawn as Tav. So not being able to create a spawn while playing Astarion makes me even sadder.

I know that Astarion's voice actor plays BG3 (check out his twitch and youtube channels to see it.) Maybe we can get him to do an origin run AS Astarion and he can just voice the lines as he plays. =D