So you're telling me that we can't do anything to fix her engine, while it's far from being some ancient or unusual tech, while we can bail out a guy from a suicide mission given by a goddes? We can even somehow bring him back fron being mind flayer, but fixing a simple engine is too much? As title states, Karlach's story is a failure of an RPG, our choices are basically worthless, we are told to chase the solution, only to be denied from trying every single way. It's an RPG, it's an DnD, and you're telling me I can't just fix such a simple issue... Just because? Here, below are examples of how ridiculous this whole situation is:
- Cyberpunk, one can argue it's a grimdark setting, when good ending is never possible, also V brought it upon themselves, unlike Karlach who was forced into slavery. And yet V can have a good ending, sure all of them are basically a cliffhangers, but anyone who knows the lore will know that Stormtech (aldecaldos ending) can easly save you, or that the Legend ending also can solve your problems. You also have Misty's tarot which is stated to be never wrong, and there's Phantom Liberty coming, and all seems that one of the characters basically gor ressurected, sure it most likely is bait, but still everything looks like that. All that and it's not even and rpg game, just a shooter with rpg elements.
- Fallout 3, you had to basically kill yourself at the end from radiation poisoning, even if you had radiation immume companion with you, he just told you to basically piss off. To somehow salvage this, bethesda had to release a dlc where it's stated you survived, do you really want to go this way Larian?
- Katawa Shoujo, a god damned dating sim about crippled girls, where your character has heart issues (how familiar, how fun!)im gonna be specifically talking about one route. Basically in the middle of the last act you're told your girl is gonna leave no matter what and you can't do anything about it. Literally like 12 hours of your time go to hell because reasons... Unless you played your cards right, then you get the sweetest ending, where you survive a heart attack and both of you get to have a hopeful future. Together, that's the important part, there is a small amount of bitterness but I won't get into details because that's not the point. What's important is that you get an ending you worked for the past 13 hours or so. You and your gal living happy ever after. So you're telling me a god forsaken dating sim has a bigger variety of options than a supposedly the best RPG in a looong while? The reviews speak for themselves right?
I could go on and on, but I think it's enough, I think I've delivered my point. Though if you want to, feel free to give more examples similar to mine.
I want to believe that such incredible plot holes in Karlach's story are due to the fact that she was remade from scratch so many times and simply did not have time to give her a quest line worthy of the original character. I really don’t want to believe that Larian will stubbornly insist that Karlach is doomed and the only way for her to survive is to return to Avernus with her, only to make her a “tragic character.” Even if they really want this, it does not fix the problem that the player essentially has NO influence on her fate and this is truly unforgivable for any game that calls itself an RPG, where at all times the player's choice has been one of the most important parts. At the moment we have no choice regarding Karlach other than "neutral", "bad" and "very bad". I am once again asking you to let us fix Karlachs engine so her ending isn't decided by a dialog box in the last 30 seconds of the game!
In Life is Strange, you play as a girl with strange time-warping powers, who's racing against time
and a serial killer
to prevent a catastrophe from befalling her town. In that game, you basically have two epilogues (barring all the premature bad endings brought upon by fatal choices):
1) You sacrifice your best friend to stop the storm from destroying the town.
2) You leave the town to its fate to save your best friend's life.
Both of those are true bittersweet endings that had proper set-up from start to finish. Both of them force you to make huge sacrifices that are meaningful and emotionally impactful. If Larian wanted that for Karlach, they should've written her that way from start to finish. Adding in a few downer lines here and there is not enough.
All Patch 2 did was make Karlach a confused character who goes from hopeful to hopeless at breakneck speed for inexplicable reasons. In a world where pretty much everything is possible, it's hard to believe a character that's written like this.
To all the people who peddle the "why should everyone have a good ending" narrative, I want you to explain to me why Karlach should be the only one to have all bad ones.
The OP raises some good points about the technology of Karlach's engine. My impression from what Dammon says is that if we were on Avernus fixing it would be relatively simple and it is only because we are on Faerun that there are complications.
To me it just another example of Larian's poor story-telling/writing. Maybe it will be fixed in the next patch - see all the hype about 'new content' because Larian have called the VAs back in.
The OP raises some good points about the technology of Karlach's engine. My impression from what Dammon says is that if we were on Avernus fixing it would be relatively simple and it is only because we are on Faerun that there are complications.
To me it just another example of Larian's poor story-telling/writing. Maybe it will be fixed in the next patch - see the mounting hype about 'new content' because Larian have called the VAs back in.
Exactly this, if her engine turned her into a demigod as a price of returning to hell, and as a reason why it can't be fixed I would have accepted this. If we just planned the assault on avernus because killing Zariel is the only choice, I would have accepted this. But why the character with literally the simplest issue is supposed to be the doomed one?
Well one can only hope, it's just ridiculous nobody thinks twice about her engine, like it's something relatively normal, and we are told we can't fix this? We can't even try? We can't even plan an attack on Zariel to permanently "fix" Karlach's problem. We are basically told to shut up and die until last 2 minutes of the game because...???
Her engine is not some ancient punishment or torture device, her engine is not some god level tech that turns her into a monster, which could explain why it can't be fixed. It's just an artificial heart that's not even something unsual in the world of baldurs gate
If Gale can be bailed out of nuke inside chest, suicide mission ordered by god and turning into mindflayer, Karlach not being able to fix her engine is simply awful writting, no matter what bullshit reason Larian pushes for going to avernus
Well one can only hope, it's just ridiculous nobody thinks twice about her engine, like it's something relatively normal, and we are told we can't fix this? We can't even try? We can't even plan an attack on Zariel to permanently "fix" Karlach's problem. We are basically told to shut up and die until last 2 minutes of the game because...???
Her engine is not some ancient punishment or torture device, her engine is not some god level tech that turns her into a monster, which could explain why it can't be fixed. It's just an artificial heart that's not even something unsual in the world of baldurs gate
Zariel is an archdevil, and you are saying we should attack her with a level 12 party ? That is a lvl 30-40 quest.
People need to start thinking things through, OP states Larian hasn't thought through Karlach's story and here we are with people suggesting we attack Zariel
What I meant is if we are forced to go to hell anyway why can't we plan it? Why can we even mention that if she needs to go back she won't be alone? Why can't we at least have a plan instead of deciding her fate at the last seconds of the game
Zariel is an archdevil, and you are saying we should attack her with a level 12 party ? That is a lvl 30-40 quest.
People need to start thinking things through, OP states Larian hasn't thought through Karlach's story and here we are with people suggesting we attack Zariel
Yes, yes. We know that. Zariel is supposedly around lvl 25. But attacking does not mean killing and, if semantics bother you, how about using ‘facing’ Zariel to, in the end, barter with her for some solution or item that would lead to a solution?
In the game you face Vlaakith, Shar, Myrkul, Bane, Bhaal (or their chosen, backed by their power) and a damn NETHERBRAIN and win. ‘Attacking’ Zariel seems pretty feasible, even with that wording.
Drawing a parallel to another character (who, no, did not draw the short stick as badly as Karlach - not even close): Astarion
He gets his sweet but slightly bitter ending in the option to keep him on the “good” side of grey. If you do that, he will have to give up being in the sun because he will remain a spawn. But in his epilogue, there is mention that, from then on, tav and him will journey on to find a way to help him be in the sun again. It’s not a certainty, but it’s a hope that it could be possible. This little nugget of hope can help carry his story’s conclusion even more to the happy side of things.
Tbh, the “go back to Avernus” ending could’ve implied something in similar lines. Yes, perhaps there’s a fix - but not where we hoped. Maybe the chance to fix her is what will take the player and herself back to the Hells.
Karlach’s story is flawed beyond this, yes, and I’ve written about it here before. However, a small change like this - implying there’s hope for her, but at the cost of more challenges - would make the entire story as it is much easier to swallow.
Zariel is possible to beat on lvl 13. Well equipped party at 12 would also manage to do that but that's besides the point. Right now it look like larian is pulling the same crap bethesda did when they released broken steel dlc for fallout 3 and that's unacceptable
Well if we somehow bailed her out and spent life looking for a cure and fighting Zariel's assasins, but TOGETHER and on the Faerun not in a god damnes hell that would be good enough. Hell if we were told we went to hell and actually kicked Zariel's ass that would be acceptable
It would be at least somewhat acceptable if we knew what happens after we go to avernus. Zariel can be killed and the cut epilogues basically confirm that, but hey, why finish the story, who needs that right
It would be at least somewhat acceptable if we knew what happens after we go to avernus. Zariel can be killed and the cut epilogues basically confirm that, but hey, why finish the story, who needs that right
I know you've said this, and I've said this in too on a Reddit thread but for people who don't know:
The cut-content voiced Wither dialogue does say this about Karlach and presumably female Tav/Origin: "Together, she and Karlach razed the Hells and made Zariel tremble with their might."
54:51 at this link:
It's so odd as even this cut-content would give us more closure for that ending even if that's not the ending a butt-ton of us want or think she deserves. Here I am with my hope but here's to hoping they cut that out and now they can backpedal with more freedom to give us a fix engine ending.
I know I'm a broken record at this point and my opinion is not welcome to many of you, but I'd like to reiterate that our only evidence of Larian potentially not fixing her ending is a nearly 3 week old PR statement that was posted before the majority of the Karlach backlash happened.
Like if they took the time to give her an epilogue based on community feedback, why do you guys think that they wouldn't continue adding to her based on additional feedback?
Also in regards to the "it's the hope that kills" line, that can mean a lot of things in a lot of contexts, and is a dictum they clearly don't mind violating since every other origin (besides maybe Astarion) is swimming in buckets of hope.
I know I'm a broken record at this point and my opinion is not welcome to many of you, but I'd like to reiterate that our only evidence of Larian potentially not fixing her ending is a nearly 3 week old PR statement that was posted before the majority of the Karlach backlash happened.
Like if they took the time to give her an epilogue based on community feedback, why do you guys think that they wouldn't continue adding to her based on additional feedback?
Also in regards to the "it's the hope that kills" line, that can mean a lot of things in a lot of contexts, and is a dictum they clearly don't mind violating since every other origin (besides maybe Astarion) is swimming in buckets of hope.
Let's hope they brought Samantha back to the studio for more than just "the ending she deserves"...
It's so odd as even this cut-content would give us more closure for that ending even if that's not the ending a butt-ton of us want or think she deserves. Here I am with my hope but here's to hoping they cut that out and now they can backpedal with more freedom to give us a fix engine ending.
+1 for backpedaling. Whatever they had in mind for her was not it.
