Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Level 12 for 100+ Hours is Not Fun

I'm very thorough and spent a good 270 hours on my first run of the game. I didn't finish. I was max level for over 100 hours. That is absurd. I had over 100K XP after hitting the level cap and finally reached the point where zero character progression was just stealing the fun away.

I get that higher level spells are hard. I get that most people don't even hit level 12, but the people that do should not be punished because of the people who do not. If the content is there, we should get credit for it. 30, 40, 50K+ XP with no leveling is simply un-enjoyable. If you can't do higher level spells then allow multi-classing to 20 with no spell slots over level 6 like the popular mod has. Or just add spells and feats that are already in the game with no spells over level 6 being allowed. Something. It might not be perfect, but it is practical. If people choose to over-level content then they should be able to if said content is there. You said you wanted to make it as much like D&D as possible. Well imagine players going on a campaign and earning 35K XP. Then telling them "OK, add 35 thousand XP to your sheets. Great job. You're still level 12 though. Sorry, but progression after that is tricky and I don't feel like dealing with it so for the next 75 hours you aren't going to progress. Kinda like how you didn't progress over the last 25. Cool? Great." Every player at that table would quit. Well, perhaps not everyone, but there would be a ton of compromise offers and a lot of complaining. And then the campaign would fall apart, if it didn't on that first night they got their rewards and were told they meant nothing.

And no, installing the mod is not a solution because it disables all of the achievements. It's also a pain in the ass for a lot of us who aren't used to using mods in modern games. Putting things in the wrong folder, making a folder and putting it in the wrong place, then having to find it again to delete it bc now the game doesn't work etc etc.. Leaving the dev console in and just letting people take the cap off themselves would have been the optimal solution, along with an adjusted spell/feat/skill/hp table that capped spells at level 6 if higher level ones could not be implemented properly in a reasonable amount of time. I agree, levels 1-12 are the most fun, but again, the content is there to go well beyond that. If people choose to do it they really, really should get credit for it.

I have a alternative solution to lvl 13, I think anyway, it's not exactly novel, but it could work here for BG3.

So when we hit the level cap (in this case the gulf between lvl 12 and the final cutscene) at this point, instead of progressing our Class, we progress in something called Legacy. Here XP is still awarded but rather than just gaining new abilities and spells for ourselves, we use our experience to recruit and maintain a mini-faction.

In BG3 this would be somewhat smaller in scope than the sort of thing we've seen in other games. The idea isn't to replace the D&D class lvl scheme with bespoke Epic levels or whatever, but rather to make it about recruiting a B team.

They kick it in our Tav'ern, which is like our BG3 mini-stronghold.

More XP at that point allows us to recruit more followers from among the NPCs we've encountered, and the goal is to deck them out and keep a collection of them at some sort of stronghold where they hang out. Mechanically the challenge would be to recruit these characters, bring them along and keep them alive, so rather than raising them from the dead instead when they die in battle the rest of our followers raise statues to them or carve their names on a rock like Wolverines, or do things of that sort. Basically the idea here is to work with what exists, rather than having to add a ton of new stuff. XP then becomes a form of gold that we use to open up that sort of gameplay.

Even in PnP the wizards really haven't put out a lot of adventure campaigns or modules for the +13 lvl range, and a lot of DMs have found it a struggle in 5e, so a lot of times they turn to stuff like developing a faction or some sort of politics of the realms type angle to keep it engaging.

If they're ever going to put out an official expansion game or a BG4 that ends up taking us there, it will probably have to include something along those lines anyway, so this could be a kind of mini-primer or a way to help set things up that might be used later in the Official BG lvl 13+ campaign.

This could be paired ad hoc with some stuff like extra feats for every 20,000 xp to keep it within the current framework. But yeah, I think the point is solid. If you cap out before the game concludes it sort of withers away the motivation to drive it home. I agree that a native option to lvl in another class sans modding would also be ideal and perhaps simpler. Though really I'm a class purist at heart, so I kinda like the idea of say taking over a temple, or founding a circle, building up a war party. Doesn't have to go as far as BG2, I think they could use a lot of existing locations and characters to create an in-world campsite more or less that serves as the hub for the lvl 12 game, once you get there.

"And no, installing the mod is not a solution because it disables all of the achievements." Oh diddums.

"It's also a pain in the ass for a lot of us who aren't used to using mods in modern games. Putting things in the wrong folder, making a folder and putting it in the wrong place, then having to find it again to delete it bc now the game doesn't work etc etc." Perhaps if you took ten minutes to look at what is involved in modding BG3, or 'any modern game', before spouting nonsense?

Maybe next time don't be a "stat monger" and don't Min/Max your character at the start of the game LOL!
And maybe you won't get bored too quickly and have fun *rolls eyes* Sven has stated he's not going to up the level 12 cap and for good reason, this game isn't meant to play forever. This isn't a Bethesda Game LoL! Beat the game once and then go play something else? *rolls eyes* *smh* LoL!

Umm, I hit level 12 early in act 3, I finished act 3 in not long. My first playthrough was only like 60 hours. Your problem is entirely self inflicted from choosing to play in a manner that 99% of the player base won't. If there were 15 levels you would have the same problem just because of the absurd playtime you out into the game.

I agree with the OP. Even the ability to have extra levels for multiclassing, and to gain higher-level spell slots (for upcasting spells, metamagic, etc) would be a welcome addition.

While I've used mods in plenty of other games, they feel a lot more problematic in BG3 so far. While I couldn't care less about the achievements, the non-graceful way in which mod failures/removals affect save games is an unacceptable risk for a game that takes so much of a time investment. Perhaps if BG3 included an internal mod manager like say Unreal Tournament from 20+ years ago, or Conan Exiles from 5 years ago, it would be a bit less cumbersome. Also, if modlists could be loaded dynamically based upon what's in-use for a particular save file that would also help -- having to juggle them when going between different multiplayer groups and solo saves is a non-starter for me.

Also what's up with the BadWrongFun arguments about people playing the game too much? "How dare you become engrossed in a gigantic game with an overwhelming amount of content? How dare you want to experience it all?" Just because some people can clear all 3 acts in 60 hours does not mean that's "normal". Reddit, Facebook, forums, etc. are full of reports of people taking far longer than that to clear even Act 1.

Anyway, if the way over-leveling was handled in the mod was an option that could be enabled in the core game, you'd have my vote for including it.

I like the fact that we reach the max level even if we take quest decisions that reward less xp. In games that don't limit the maximum level, I always feel forced to pick the quest decision that rewards the most xp.
Once I noticed I can reach max level no matter what, this game became a lot more enjoyable as I now can just focus on the story and don't need to worry about xp rewards.

Why do mods feel "a lot more problematic in BG3 so far"? More problematic than what? Modding BG3 is about as simple as it gets. Most mods consist of one file and installing them with BG3 Mod Manager is a matter of a few clicks.
Removing mods mid-game is seldom good practice although it depends on the game and the type of mod.
An internal mod manager is not the issue. Lack of modding support from Larian (they have promised it) and the way they have dealt with saves (kick one and they all limp) are the main issues at the moment.
Most mods are not made with multiplayer in mind so it is unfair to criticise them in that department especially when the co-op crowd have been complaining about Larian's implementation of it since day one.
A similar point can be made in defence of mods with regards to having multiple runs on the go - most mods are not made with that in mind. A mod manager which could handle different profiles would do it.

I completed my first run in a massive 235 hours over summer break clocking in an extra 96k xp. I think I hit level 12 at about 120 hours?

Now I do a lot of fluffing around, I can spend an hour trading and working out 2 kits for each character. Not even minmaxing class levels, just outfitting.

Oh yeah, sometimes I enjoy the vistas or pause for a song and make a cuppa.

I did all the main questlines for initial companions but didn't do much with Jaheira and Minsc. (Zip with Minthara obviously.) Didn't bother with the illithid subsystem, game was already complicated enough.

Sometime after hitting level 12, I realized I didn't care so much about levels than completing stories. The continual accumulation of gear meant the party got more and more optimized.

One thing Larian could do is give us a feat every 30k xp. I'd use it to backfill secondary and tertiary stats to 20.

I don't want to hijack the OP's thread, but yours is a valid question, politely asked, so here's my reason for having this opinion...

+1

Sounds like something that could be added relatively easy. Bg3 encourages multiclassing anyway, it would be a natural addition.

This mostly boils down to you asking things of mods which they weren't made for, i.e. multiplay. If a mod works then it does not need support. More or less all the ~24 mods I use (some from EA) have been updated after patches and are still being updated.
As for Bags, Bags, Bags - were all the bags empty before you uninstalled the mod? Why would they revert as they are added by the mod not converted from something already in the game. You could also put that at Larian's door as what gets baked into a save is their responsibility.
I have only been using Bags mod since I started this run but I'm not overly impressed with it. I've seen merchants with multiple copies of the bags (the big bag which contains the other bags) and I've noticed that it sometimes sucks potions into the potions pouch on its own. Annoying in the middle of a fight when you hit the hotbar for a health potion and there are none there. Unless it gets a major update it will be gone after this game.

Like I said, based off my experiences in other games, I wanted to test what would happen in some scenarios that I've specifically encountered before.

To answer your question about the Bags mod, in my test I had some bags empty, some full, and tried to split them evenly between auto-sort vs. non-sorting bags. I did not test removing the mod with all the bags first being emptied because I wanted to see what would happen in the event BG3 got an update that rendered it incompatible/buggy with no fix from the original author (something that happened to me in Conan Exiles before).

My expectation was that either the bags would vanish, or that they'd revert to standard backpacks. Instead, the game could not load that save file AT ALL anymore. That was a much more severe result than I had expected when I started my test. The reason I expected the would turn into a regular bag is due to how most mods (from other games) tend to start with a base asset that's already in the engine and MODify it rather than adding something from scractch. /shrug

As for multiplayer, I never got around to testing them there -- since things seemed less stable than I liked in single-player, there was no way I was going to jeopardize the progress of two separate groups. Feels a bit ironic, since mods were such a vital part of running successful multiplayer servers in other games, but then BG3 isn't an open world, multiplayer server but chiefly a single-player game with a narrow form of multiplayer tacked on. A bit of an apples to oranges comparison, I'll admit.

I am impressed. I have no clue how you squeezed that many hours out of it. I thought I was taking it real slow when I finished the game in about 120h. In completionist runthrough I reached a cap deep into act 3, so it seemed well balanced to me. That said with how XP is calculated I can imagine people easily gaming the system. For that reason I prefer PoE1&2 XP system (quests for completing quests, exploration and limited kills per enemy only).

You probably skipped a lot of tough boss battles through dialogue. The Thorm bosses in Act 2, Orthon Yugir, the Creche leaders in Act 1 as well as killing all the Duergar plus Nere in Grymforge. Killing the wardensin Moonrise Tower to save the gnomes and tieflings. There's also many minidungeons like the haunted house near last light inn which has the cave underneath with shapeshifters or the Mason's hideaway. By the time I got to Act 3 I was lv12 after meeting Gortash for the first time.

Avoiding fights through dialogue gives a ton less experience than resolving them through straight combat. Orthon Yugir through dialogue gives like 110 xp while killing him and his minions gives 1500+.

I think this game would have benefitted from going to lv14, but the problem is the power creep is wild through magic items. They would need to rethink a lot of Act 3 combat encounters besides Cazador who's a decent challenge and maybe Raphael. Sarevok and Orin were a joke, and Gortash is not memorable if it weren't for his bugged mines.

Problem with this game is burst is too good on martial classes and sorcerer. HP would need to be doubled in some encounters and maybe nerf enemy damage/amount of enemy multiattacks and instead introduce more CC/rot damage/conditions to cleanse and mechanics to compensate without making bosses huge health sponges hitting your team members for half their health.

I'm at 176 hours on my first playthru -- still in the Lower City. I've been level 12 for several "missions" now (Iron Throne, Steel Guard, Wyrm's Way), and still have quite a few objectives in my log that I haven't started yet (kill Gortash, kill Orin, Stop the Presses, Cazador, House of Hope). That said, I feel like I probably spend an hour+ each day on inventory management, and I'd estimate a good 5-10 hours of Act 1 were spent trying to standardize the $#&%ing radial menus (I prefer controller to KB&M in this game due to the more precise movement when exploring, and the more immersive UI overall).

No clue how far along that puts me, but I'm not really feeling the same sense of urgency that I did in Acts 1 & 2 simply because it seems like there is so much left to do. The only event that really even feels like time might be of the essence is that a member of my party has been abducted and I'm trying not to piss off the kidnapper.

Anyway, it is a bit of a bummer to realize that even additional spell slots or feats won't be forthcoming (unless I mod the game), especially since 5E locks Feats/Ability Score Increases to class level rather than character level to discourage the multiclass mayhem of the D&D 3.x era. So much for 6/6, 5/7 or 3/9 splits...

Well, possibly. I did most of the mentioned - convinced one of the act2 bosses to kill himself but fought other two as it was more fun. Probably my biggest skip was the gith creche, as I used the .

I don't now this one. More info, please.

I'm excited for Mods, as there is a lot of activity at Nexus and many of the features we requested during EA are already available there in some form. So for example the one I mentioned at the top would be a riff on the Recruit Any NPC mod (which is also the current custom party mod) and the Party Limit Begone mod (combined with xp scaling to make that work) I also tried the Native Camera Tweaks and WASD mods and a few others like that. These are all killer mods that do many of the things I really wanted from a BG3 game.

But for anything that has an overwrite they can present issues when hotfixes drop. For example, when the Game updated the controller inputs in the last hotfix it busted the WASD mod for half a day. Not a huge deal, but when that happens you quickly realize that being reliant on a single modding enthusiast to update as soon as the game does is a bit tricky. The game is still new and the full release is still being updated. When they get a steam workshop approach up off the ground for ease of use, and modding teams which coordinate more broadly, you can end up with some fantastic mod collections that are easier to adopt in MP sessions probably, but this all takes a fair bit of time to get up off the ground. Like I'm sure it will hum a year from now, but we still got those growing pains at the moment.

There's also a more basic issue I think, of Players wanting to remain Players, and not really wanting to also be their own DM at the same time. Extensive modding can blur the line there more than the Player may wish. This can make mods for the more mechanical stuff or power curve nuts and bolts a bit different than say cosmetic stuff when it comes to choosing which mods to explore.

All that just to say that, even when its very simple to add mods, and with lots of options to choose from, that can still bring some decision paralysis there, and other factors beyond just fear or busting your install. Which is why native support and recommended settings/options would be cool for some of this.

Ps. Oh also there is a Mod to restore achievements while using a modded game, which may not be the most important issue for some, but its still nice to have em. This doesn't solve the more general mod installation type issues if that's the main hang up, but I saw that one update the other day. Haven't tried it lately. I did a clean install after hotfix 6 and have been running vanilla till patch 3 drops. But anyway, another one that seemed pretty cool.

Just wanted to say that I completely agree with the OP, and any troll that says, "Lol play better," is just that, a troll. I would go so far as to say that Larian created the game specifically so that people would look around for all the hidden dungeons and interesting side quests. Dropping hints in interviews, and discussing purposeful decisions to make the game bigger, point at a dev team that wanted people to enjoy finding all the hidden areas. Plus, this game is, very loosely but still, based on a tabletop game where exploration is one of the three pillars of the game. Speedrunning to the final boss is not how this game was designed to be played. So, hitting as many hours post level cap as the OP did, is not out of the ordinary. It might not be how everyone plays, but it is very much an expected and viable way to play.

So, not only is being level 12 for hundreds of hours defeatist purely from a game play standard. Worse, though, is that the absolutely insane scale of some of the boss battles available near the end game are the kind of thing that few DMs I know would throw at their players until they were at least level 18 or above. I understand the game is designed to be operated at level 12, so those fights are, both in theory and practice, absolutely winnable. That's not my problem with it. My problem is that the D&D player inside me, which, by the way, is the very reason I purchased the game in EA, one more diversion that helps to satiate my D&D fix away from the table, was screaming that those social interactions and combats were textbook examples of Masters of the World tier play. Fighting a devil in his corner of hell? There's no way level 12 characters should be undertaking something like that. It felt, very much, like the devs wanted to give players the "feel" that their characters were in that Masters of the World tier of play, but didn't want to put in all the additional work it was going to take to allow PCs access to higher level spells and abilities. All of which, once again, points at a hasty push out of what could have been, and in my opinion should have been, infinitely better programed and polished before release.

I, in all sincerity, would have been happier if Larian had just said, "Sorry, we're actually only releasing Acts 1&2 in August, because Act 3 needs some serious work." I'd have been much happier waiting for a non-rushed, polished and complete Act 3, that had the game built for PCs of the levels that they should be for tackling situations that tier of play calls for, than being frustrated with gaining three to four more levels worth of experience and getting absolutely (pun intended) nothing to show for it.