Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Build Discussion my perfect party that kill everything

fighter battle master GITHYANKI for op great swords, at level 11 can do 9 attacks in one turn with haste and action surge
sorcerer draconic bloodline human or half elf for shields using as main character for charisma and dual haste :P need feat as war mage to keep concetration
paladin oath of ancienes for light smites for enemies resistance for physical damage and heal also have aura of warding
cleric wood elf or elf basicly any subclass can be used cause every subclass can support and heal, life for more heals, light for more dps, tempest for hybrid also give him war mage for concentrations spells

with this team I killed devil and guy in act 3 in palace with his steel watch and have no problem in hard mode

this 4 classes is TOP S TIER

A TIER CLASSES

BARBARIAN, RANGER, WIZARD

B TIER

BARD WARLOCK ROGUE

C TIER

DRUID MONK

tier list is for pure class 1-12

I'm doing just fine on tactician with:

- Wyll, pact of blade melee build
- Astarion, Alert assassin, poison optimized
- Gale, donating/Feign death merchant thief, no merchant is safe!
- and MC, sword and board paladin generalist, a rock to build around of

On the second run and trying to beat challenges with new approaches.

I don't think you need to optimize much to gain an edge, though finding new ways to belt out damage is always cool.

[Edit]
Dude! have you seen monk play throughs on Youtube? They are hands down S tier. I'm temped to make Astarion shadowmonk.

Is there a party that does NOT kill everything ?



So you say that :

Best: Fighter, Sorcerer, Paladin, Cleric

Good: Barbarian, Ranger, Wizard

Decent: Bard, Warlock, Rogue

Worst: Druid, Monk

While pretty much everyone says Fighter, Sorcerer and Paladin are OP, I've seen multiple postings on this site that state Monk is OP, and that Ranger is UP.

Ultimately I dont really see the point of doing such lists in a game that clearly is playable with all classes. Obviously Larian should fix Haste and Haste Potions, and do some further balancing, but even if you dont use such tricks the game is still perfectly beatable.

what the point of the monk if you can take 2nd warrior or multiclass warrior/barbarian with medium armor and 14 dex ? or 2nd paladin ?
warrior,paladin > monk any time

monk is garbage cause you can take warrior or paladin or even barbarian in his slot
ranger beastmaster is OP AF cause on level 11 you can have 2 bears as summon + 2 hits from bows and hunter mark for decent damage

the main reason why sorc is on S tier cause he can dual cast haste on warrior and paladin

The strongest party I have made was in my DU playthrough, it was

DU 5 lvl shadow monk + 5 lvl rogue assassin + 2 lvl fighter, dual wielded, lot of invisibility + DU's invisibility cape, basically invisible every turn

Minthara vengeance paladin, no comments there it's a paladin

Laezel master of battle fighter - no comments needed as well

Shadowheart domain of life cleric with enjoyable Dark Justiciar skills

ancient paladin is better cause have anti magic aura
warrior or barbarian is still better than rouge or monk even with multiclassing
life cleric or light cleric is ok both are ridiculas with ring that give blessing and blade ward gloves both from act 1 for 2 turns

Out of curiosity, what exactly is it that you think a Fighter does better than a monk? What makes them “better”, the number of attacks? Action Surge? Something else?

I’m very confident that I can make a Monk build which is flat out better than a fighter in literally any metric we choose to evaluate, they’re absurdly OP, so the fact that you have them at the bottom of your tier list is very interesting to me.

Rogues as well of course, a Rogue / Gloomstalker or Rogue / Shadow Monk has as many or more attacks than a fighter of equivalent level for all levels, hasted or not up until level 11 and then 1 less attack while hasted but the same number otherwise at 11 and 12, in exchange for some crazy stealth stuff going on. But while I disagree on Rogues you don’t have them at literally the bottom of the list and they’re certainly not as OP as Monks are.

monk are bottom cause any other melee classes is better than him, paladin ridiculas dmg from smites heal and aura and heavy armor, barb with rage take 50% less dmg from melee, warrior that have monuvers 3 attack per turn on 11, can use heavy armor or medium if multiclass with barb

fighter on 11 with haste can make 9 attacks in one turn, fighter with
GITHYANKI race also have access to riduculas greatswords in game, monk dont even have half dmg than fighter with GITHYANKI greatswords
fighter with heavy armor also are more tanky, same with barb with rage or paladin with shield and weapons like Defender Flail

for ranger pure beastmaster is way better than other subclass cause bear are tanks that provoke enemies

also heavy armor mastery give 3 dmg less and +1str from 17 to 18 mix it with forge heavy armor that reduce dmg by another 2

you can use 2h paladin also with 2h fighting mastery and Savage Attacker that give ridiculas dmg from any 2h weapons

What is a feign death Merchant Thief?

The idea monks are not even doing half the damage of Fighters with Greatswords is pretty wildly inaccurate. Let's look at their comparative damage.

The only two factors that really matter in terms of dealing more damage is 1) How much damage each attack deals and 2) How many hits you expect per turn. So, let's look at each. We can assume we're only looking at level 12, after all, everyone who praises the fighter is only ever looking at level 11+, often treating it like it's the entirety of the game. But we'll roll with that and ignore level 2-10 which are even *more* favorable to the monk, and just look at level 12 here as well. We can thus also assume we're using the best gear available, and in both cases, we can assume we're downing an Elixir of Cloud Giant Strength before any truly important fights, for a Str of 27.


Fighters with OP Greatswords: 2d6 base (average 7) + 6 (Weapon) + 1d6 (weapon, average 3.5) + 8 (Str) +10 (Great Weapon Master) + 2 (Gloves) + 2 (Ring) + 2 (Helmet); you can certainly get higher but this is a reasonable base. Total average 40.5
Monks: 1d10 base (average 5.5), +3-6 (class feature, average 4.5) + 16 (Str) + 1d10 (Gloves, 5.5 average) + 2 (Ring) + 2 (Helmet); you can certainly get higher but this is a reasonable base. Total average 35.5

Fighters do more damage on average with their OP greatswords than Monks do, flat out. Only by 5 damage per hit or so, but they definitely do. Any additional bonuses you find to apply will apply to both, so Fighters will always do more damage. What about the number of hits?

Fighters - 3 (Base) + 3 (Haste) + 1 (Bonus Action); 7 attacks per round.
Monks - 2 (Base) + 2 (Haste) + 2 (Bonus Action); 6 attacks per round.

Monks have fewer attacks per round, even while using Ki, if they're both hasted. So that's that, right? Fighters just do more damage? Not quite. Remember, it's the number of *hits* per round, not the number of *attacks*. So we need to figure out the accuracy of each as well.

Fighter - +4 (Proficiency) + 8 (Str) + 2 (Gloves) - 5 (GWM); +9
Monks - +4 (Proficiency) + 16 (Str); +20

Now, granted, this doesn't matter much against AC 10 targets. After all, they both hit on a 2 in that case. And, in those cases, the Fighter does more damage, consistently, especially considering Action Surge. However, the higher the AC, the less favorable it is for the Fighter, as a +11 difference is absolutely *massive*. The reason is because while GWM *subtracts* from your to-hit in exchange for bonus damage, Tavern Brawler *adds* to your to-hit while *also* granting damage. Not as much as GWM does, but with the Elixir of Cloud Giant Strength, it's pretty close. Let's consider 'the devil guy' since he was specifically mentioned. He has 27 AC. While using GWM, the Fighter needs an 18 to hit, meaning they hit 15% of the time. There are other bonuses you can get, such as Bless for a 2.5 bonus or advantage if wearing a risky ring and so forth to improve those odds, but base they're just not great. What about the Monk? They need a 7 to hit, meaning they hit 70% of the time.

So the Fighter does 40.5 damage per hit * 7 attacks per round but 10 in the first round so let's call it 10 * 15% accuracy = 60.75 average damage in the first round, 42 average damage thereafter.
The monk? They do 35.5 * 6 * 70% accuracy, or 149 average damage per round.

One of those is indeed less than half the damage of the other, but it's not the Monk doing half the damage. Granted, not all targets have 27 AC, in fact almost no other targets do, I used that fight since it was mentioned but if it's AC 10 we already said the Fighter does more damage. How high does the AC have to be for the Monk to do more damage per round? Well, the Fighter has a base expected damage of 283.5 if they never missed, the Monk is 213. In order for the Monk to be ahead, the Fighter needs to have at most 75% of the hit percentage of the Monk. Since the Monk can't get above 95 (ignoring advantage for the moment), that means the Fighter needs to be at 70%, meaning they need a 7 to hit, or, with the setup assumed, the enemy's target AC needs to be 16 or higher. How common is that at level 11-12, the portion of the game we're discussing? Every single boss in Act 3 other than 1 has that AC or higher. The higher the AC, the quicker the Monk's advantage overtakes that which is provided by Action Surge.

On the other points raised, why would Monks need heavy armor? You can get 18 Wis and Dex very easily with a Monk, combined with robes that give +2, boots that give +1, and you're at 21 AC, the exact same as your great weapon wielding fighter in the best heavy armor out there. You *can* go even higher if needed of course, but it's not needed. Or shoot, if you're convinced Helldusk armor is the superior option, just wear that! It automatically grants proficiency. Sure, it turns off the crazy move speed of the Monk, but the Fighter didn't have it to begin with, so comparatively it's not a disadvantage. As to being more tanky, as we've just covered the AC is the same. Fighters and Barbs do have more HP, true, 1 or 2 more per level respectively, for 12 or 24 more total. But monks are gaining 10 HP per turn from their gloves if they need it, so after a round or two the HP difference completely vanishes. As to Rage, a Life Cleric who gives Blade Ward on heal is an invaluable asset to the party, and one you've already indicated is part of your party comp. Resistance from multiple sources doesn't stack, so against the most common damage types the Barb is no more resistant than the Monk is.

Finally, I just want to say, Savage Attacker is a terrible feat. The impact is just so small. It's basically an extra 1 damage per d6 and only works with dice based damage not static damage. On our Fighter with the OP greatsword that's a total of +3 damage, less than 10%. It's hardly ridiculous, and far, far less impactful than any of {great weapon master, polearm master, or sentinel}, so I certainly wouldn't recommend taking it over one of those 3.

It's funny how people do not realize that Monk is the best melee in the game, especially if we take itemization into consideration. Followed by Thief Rogue.

If we want to get ridiculous, pair Thief with Open Hand or Gloomstalker for best close combat damage dealer in the game, who also has proficiency in 10 skills and expertise in 4.

Or Thief + Champion decked out in crit chance increase gear, attacking with advantage will insta delete 1 target per turn, with bonus attacks left

its not, paladin is best burst melee in game, fighter is best dps in game that don't need any charges

paladin is also ridiculas vs enemies with physical dmg resistance cause he use light dmg in smites

fighter can use accuary ring from act 2, accuary helm don't remeber name, bless from cleric, in act 3 my fighter have 95% chance to hit vs everyone, also before that you can use manuver accuary that boost +20% accuary per hit, fighter do more dmg have more attack per turn, can use heavy armor and heavy armor mastery. have more feats as class and Savage Attacker is OP s tier feat you use 2 roll dice insted 1 for dmg so you deal always more dmg than monk (savage attacker work also with paladin smites that make his burst even more ridiculas) cause you have less RNG to dmg, monk are crap comperted to barbarian, paladin or fighter cause monk can't use any armor without multiclass while fighter/barbarian/paladin are tanks

heavy armor mastery reduce dmg by 3 and forge heavy armor reduce dmg by 2, its total 5 dmg less its huge also give +1 str from 17 to 18 to make better attack rolls

If your fighter has 95% accuracy vs all enemies in act 3 just list what equipment he has and what the resultant bonus is. I’d love to see where exactly you’re getting a +26 with great weapon master enabled, to the best of my knowledge that’s outright impossible. If you’re using a setup that provides +31 to hit with straight fighter before enabling great weapon master and without cheats, by all means share it.

If you turn off great weapon master to lose the -5 penalty, the fighter has less damage than the Monk.
If you use a maneuver to increase your accuracy, the fighter no longer has more attacks than the Monk.
If you do both, they’re *way* behind.

As far as savage attacker, it’s just not actually very good at all. The average damage of a D6 is 3.5, the average damage of the higher of 2d6 is 4.5. It’s actually worse than that though since you just take the higher of two total damage figures not the higher of each damage dice which lends itself to regression towards the mean as your dice pool gets larger. +2 damage for a feat is just not a good value, compared to something like polearm matter or sentinel. Also fwiw Monk is actually better positioned to take it; a greatsword using fighter needs heavy armor master, sentinel, polearm master and great weapon master for you build. That’s all their feats. Monk used one for tavern brawler, spends an asi on Dex or Wis, and has a feat free for Savage Attacker if they want it. After all they have bonus action attacks and useful reactions bakes into their class and equipment and don’t need feats to get them.

I suppose you have to factor in favorable beginnings and the battlemaster's precision attack. Using bless is also relevant.

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I'd argue that savage attacker gets stronger when you have the great weapon fighting style allowing for rerolls of ones and twos.

And when you consider all the extra dice of damage that can be stacked, like a d4 of extra fire damage, etc.

Certainly, but favorable beginnings only applies to the first attack vs the devil guy referenced, and battlemaster's precision attack is not without cost and not unlimited. Bless was actually mentioned in the breakdown post, but regardless, you can take all of those, add in a ring besides, and you're still nowhere near the +17 you need to actually hit the claimed efficacy rates.

Savage attacker actually gets weaker with Great Weapon Fighting Style, perhaps unintuitively but it does. After all, rerolling 1s and 2s is effectively the same as rolling a die containing only 3-6, which is to say a D4+2. Less variance from the dice, less benefit from Savage Attacker. Without Great Weapon Fighting Style, the average of 2d6 from the weapon goes from 7 to 8.37, a whopping 1.37 bonus, but hey it's something. With it, your average goes from 9 to 9.89, or a bonus of .9 damage. It's better in that the setup provides more damage, sure, but it's worse in that the benefit provided by Savage Attacker is lower.

Same deal for more dice - 2d6 you went from 7 to 8.37 which is only roughly 1.4 but it's nearly a 20% bonus. On a small portion of your damage, sure, but even still, proportionally it's not terrible. 4d6 you push your average from 14 to 15.93. Numerically it's better, nearly 2 instead of almost 1.5, but proportionally it's worse, only a 13% bonus. This is again because the more dice you have, the less likely it is to have outlier behavior anyway, and thus the less benefit you get from selecting between two different rolls. 8d6 you go from 28 to 30.73, almost 3 whole more damage, but not even 10% at that point, and so on. It's really just not a good feat. It would be better if Great Weapons used D12s instead of 2D6, for the reasons outlined above.

No, you have to consider that the rerolling of ones and twos isn't indefinite. They're only rerolled once. So, if you roll a two and reroll, you might get a one. In which case, you have to use the one.

So, savage attacker lessens that probability allowing your initial reroll to be favorable.

And while 1d12 will over time give more extreme ends than 2d6, that doesn't remove extreme ends from larger dice pools.

All I'm saying is that savage attacker isn't that bad.

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Regarding percentages to hit... shrug. If it's easy to begin with, it doesn't seem to matter how much easier it gets, at least from what I can tell. I guess what I'm saying is that I seem to hit just about all the time even when I don't optimize a build.

I don't even try xD this feat is S-grade

your monk are without any armor with less dmg and less armour and hp lol

once again
warrior got more dps, more hp, more armor, WAY more damage reduced from enemies
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Adamantine+Splint+Armour + heavy armor mastery eat your monk alive

Well I certainly can't disagree that you don't even try.

You indicate the fighter has more damage, more hp, more armor, and WAY more damage reduced from enemies. Of course the only thing you provide support for is the armor you're using, which has an AC of 18, doesn't allow for Dex modifiers, and thus no, they don't have more armor, they actually have significantly less. As already previously indicated, the Monk has an AC of 21. Dex and Wis of 18 with this: https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Vest+of+Soul+Rejuvenation along with Bonespike Boots. AC 21 as compared to 18, if they have a +9 (like a certain boss does) they hit the fighter on a 9, the Monk on a 12, meaning 60% instead of 45%, or a full 33% more than the Monk is getting hit. So guaranteed, *LESS* armor.

Keep in mind, the 3 damage reduced from Heavy Armor Master only applies to non-magical damage, and most relevant sources of incoming damage at that point (like the boss) will be magical. Monk can freely activate Patient Defense if warranted, giving the enemy disadvantage outright, and taking his 45% down to 20%, meaning the Fighter is taking fully 3x as much damage. Deflect Missiles is able to eliminate up to 26 incoming damage and turn it into damage being dealt instead. Unless the 2 damage actually being reduced was applied 10x per time Deflect Missiles was used, the Fighter would definitely not have more damage reduced from enemies, even without the rest of it.

The only thing you provided any evidence for whatsoever, and all you did was prove your assertion is false. If you're worried about getting your Str to 18 and think Savage Attacker is an S tier feat, worthy of taking above Polearm Master or Sentinel, I have no doubt at all that your damage is nowhere close to the monk, and as we've already discussed the Monk has more HP after 1 round of combat than the Fighter does. Just saying something is true means absolutely nothing. It's easy to prove your position. Just screen shot your equipment screen, showing what equipment is being used, what the resultant bonus is, and what the average damage dealt is. Without that, I'm left to assume that everything you're saying is just as wildly untrue as the claim that the fighter has "more armor" with an AC of 18.