Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Technical & Gameplay Problems knocked out counting as dead

In numerous quests knocked out seems to count as dead. I wonder if it's a bug, or an oversight (which I assume should affect how easy it is to fix)

in a certain act 3 quest:

I just played thought this not 10 minutes ago, trying to save Captain Grisly and the others too, but couldn't manage to keep them alive. Throughout the fight there's some dialogue about removing the masks when they make their Saving Throws so that lead me to a strategy of doing non-lethal to them to knock them out, then looting the masks off their bodies. However the moment I removed the mask from their inventory, they instantly died.

Missed the Help the Hag Survivors quest though so maybe there is an option for a different outcome.

If you wait till after you kill the hag, you can remove the masks without them dying. But they still count as dead by the quests

I've been researching this for a couple of days now, and seems this isn't an isolated bug, as even major gaming journalism and guide sites have picked up on this. Since there are supposed to be conversations from these NPCs after saving them, it seems like it is something on the back end that Larian really should investigate.

I did manage to save captain Grisly in my latest playthrough. We disposed quickly of the hag and for one reason or the other she did not summon the mask wearers to her lair. After the hag was dead, the mask wearers did not turn hostile. It was possible to pickpocket them, but only in the case of captain Grisly it was possible to steal the mask. She thanked us properly and said something about needing a drink, if I recall correctly. The others I could knock out and then rob them of their masks. Their models still show them wearing the masks though, and I have no idea how to wake them up.

I had something similar with Halsin. I do think the game only has a knockout status in a few predefined situations, and at all other times, KO is the same as dead.

Removing the masks while the Hag is still alive will always result in "mind collapse" = death. Just leave them on there since it doesn't make a difference for the story.

I've had instances in the Ethel 2: Electric Boogaloo fight where at least one of the masks would be dead, even though I had made it a point to only knock them out. Not sure what happened there, but it might be some sort of issue with damage riders. I *think* some additional damage gets applied *after* the "main" damage of an attack and if the regular/main damage knocks the enemy out but then another few points of damage from added effects/riders/whatever is applied, the character can die. It could also have been one of those trapped fire-flowers of which there are quite a few in the area and whose effect (when you set them off by accident) would be enough to kill a knocked-out enemy who is close enough to catch the blast. Lightning damage on wet enemies or on ones standing in a puddle of water is another scenario I would avoid like the plague.

So it can't hurt to prepare a bit for both these fights. For example: don't give Karlach a Soul Coin and possibly don't even let her rage when you're going after the masks. Also be mindful of things like any damaging surfaces, etc as those will continue to do damage for as long as they're active (fire surfaces for example won't just go away the instant a fight ends). Mostly for peace of mind, I also made it a point to just heal all of them once they go down (or any other knocked out NPCs I want to save, like Korilla in the Raphael-fight) by throwing a potion - gives them a few HP to make them less likely to die from some sort of low damage environmental mishap.

Still: It's pretty rare these days that I don't manage to save all the masks in both Ethel-fights. As long as you don't forget to switch to non-lethal, don't use damaging spells or ranged attacks and are mindful of the environment and added damage your melee-attacks might be doing, you should be fine.

If I had to guess, I'd think they wanted knocking out to be a way to feel good and not forcing you to be a murder-hobo. Letting the NPC actually live to yabber another day seems reserved for special scenarios.

Well... there a a few instances I can think of where knocking someone out (instead of killing them) will have huge consequences later on. Not going to spoil the one that makes the most difference, but in the hag-fight for example, one of the OG masks (the black Halfling girl) will make another appearance during Act III and comment on the fact that the party spared her life.

Took me a few runs to even realize it was the same character as the game only has so many face-models/hair-styles (and voice actors) so I initially thought this was just a coincidence..

I've been playing since EA and know it was added as a compromise, but for a long time it didn't work the way it was supposed to. Originally you were supposed to have the option to exempt certain encounters from absolute choices (killing), for example the Tieflings that trapped Lae'zel in the cage. Unfortunately, this example is a one-time encounter and you will not encounter these Tieflings again. So these NPCs are always perma-dead if killed or knocked out.

Larian's compromise was to modify the original suggestion. This means that certain encounters (usually recurring NPCs) can be repeated - you have to pay attention to the “WORDING” here. If it says something like “Knocked out until the next long rest”, then the NPCs come back, if not, then it counts as perma death.

A positive example is Aradin and his gang. If you annoy Barth by not giving him back his locket or choosing similar dialogue answers, then they become aggro and if you knock them out, then you can have the dialogue again later to choose a different answer. That's a good thing - you have an additional little skirmish where you can temporarily defeat and rob your opponents (similar to a bar fight - the winner takes it all) and then you can continue playing as normal, as mentioned, with additional answer options and outcomes.