Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Regarding Wyll's Romance [includes new Karlach post-game spoilers]

that Karlach's new ending requires Wyll to take her to Avernus means that now anyone who romances Wyll gets locked out of that special post-credit romance scene that the other players get. And the only way to get that post-credit romance scene now is to let Karlach burn to death after saving the city. Which is kind of fucked up. Yes, Wyll does need to take Karlach to Avernus for her to live, but shouldn't that mean that Wyll's post-credits scene with a romanced character happens in Avernus rather than not at all? It shouldn't be that players who romance Wyll get *nothing at all* when other characters get *something*--especially since the lack of a fulfilling ending was a big complaint with regards to Karlach's ending. Wyll's ending shouldn't have been cut out/dismissed in the repair of Karlach's.

If you try to romance Wyll, you exactly TWO special dialogues/scenes with him in three whole acts of the 150+ hour game: 1) let's get together in Act 2, and 2) Marry Me! In Act 3. No joke, that's it. There is no filler in between. None. You can't lock in a romance with him until Act 2 when he asks your character to dance with him, where he also he tells your Tav/Durge that he wants to take things slow. But taking things slow, and the writers filling two entire Acts with nothing, are not the same thing. Nothing (and I do mean nothing!) happens with Wyll's romance again until Act 3.

Even in Act 3 when Wyll's story proper was coming to a head: going back to Baldur's Gate, dealing with Mizora's pact, rescuing/failing to rescue his father, reuniting with his father, etc. etc. there are no choices what-so-ever for a romantic weigh-in on Wyll's journey. None. On Astarion's romance you can weigh-in every which way until Sunday, but for Wyll it feels like no matter what you do the writing always treats Wyll & Tav/Durge like they're only ever arms-length friends. Wyll *never* changes what he has to say to a romanced Tav/Durge. If the characters involved in a romance don't acknowledge the romance, does it really exist?

So you can imagine how jarring it is in Act 3 after doing the quest in the Wyrmway (when after almost 2 whole acts of no special romance or sweet dialogue or learning about each other in a meaningful way what-so-ever) when Wyll gets down on one knee and proposes to Tav/Durge with an acorn. I remember thinking to myself "... Aside from Tav talking to Wyll at camp and my Tav constantly asking 'what are we' in hopes of some new dialogue or scenes popping up, there has been not even a crumb of romance between these two for almost 100 hours of gameplay. Sure, I'll take the proposal I guess, but I really hope we have more real scenes now after waiting for so long" but, alas, after the proposal scene we once again go back to nothing. Nada. No comments from the companions, either.

ended up turning into a mindflayer despite resisting that fate, as she felt she couldn’t let Orpheus do it, and then as she didn’t feel she could live that way, she killed herself in the epilogue.

My character (a Dark Urge seeking redemption) liked Wyll from his first oh-so-heroic appearance. However, she only plucked up the courage to make a move at the tiefling party. She made zero romantic advances on other companions before or afterwards, as she was completely smitten by Wyll. The dazed-happy look on this face when the kiss happened made it seem as if he liked her too, but had genuinely never considered until then that she might like him back.

In my interpretation, it stayed in Wyll's mind that she'd wanted to dance with him at the party, so he then began diligently brushing up his skills. I imagined the Act 2 romantic scene as the culmination of his behind-the-scenes efforts to be good enough at dancing to sweep her off her feet. My character was delighted for the relationship to move slowly, as she felt like it meant Wyll was in this for the long term. I made sure to have her frequently take the kiss option on a regular basis, to affirm that they were very much happily together.

The romance quiz in the circus showed how much my character had grown to understand Wyll over their time together. The question about his greatest hero made her hesitate briefly, as she knew that his father was genuinely one of his heroes, but ultimately she correctly chose Balduran. (I was legit proud of myself for getting 100% in this the first time, without needing to look anything up.) When the Emperor was later revealed to be Balduran, her first thought was of Wyll seeing what his hero had become.

The eventual proposal seemed like the natural culmination of everything they'd been through. It only took place after many ups and downs, including breaking Wyll's pact and saving his father. However, it happened before my Durge finally got free of Bhaal, which showed that Wyll was ready to commit to her as she was, still struggling against a violent force that had nearly made her kill him in the night. He was ready to sign up to a lifetime of that, even if he believed she would overcome it. When she did overcome it, his words of praise were a rich reward. The final kiss "for luck" near the end of the game was also very sweet.

I will add that Wyll literally never left the party once he joined, so they were always side by side in their adventures, sharing everything that happened. While a playthrough not romancing Wyll would reveal how few of the interactions would be different if he wasn't romanced, I haven't played that game, so every time he helped and supported my character, or she helped and supported him, it felt like an affirmation of their relationship. Plus Wyll was generally a great moral guide, something my Durge desperately needed.

As a final comment, the relationship with Wyll felt like such a defining aspect of my character that, from the point his father was kidnapped, all her decisions focused primarily on how to save the Duke, not on how to defeat the cult of the Absolute per se. We went to the shadow-blighted lands via the underdark rather than the creche because Duke Ravengard had been taken that way. Our first entrance to Moonrise was via its prison, where we sneakily saved all available prisoners without alerting the Warden et al, just on the off-chance that the Duke was down there. Our path through Act 3 was almost completely distorted because we stealthed around avoiding Steel Watchers because my character was worried about what would happen to the Duke if we were seen entering the city. We Feather Fell down to the path around Wyrm's Rock via Carm's Garms balcony, freed Florrick from a jail we hadn't realised she was in - without killing or alerting any guards - then used group invisibility to get to the lower city without anyone noticing us, including Mizora. Gosh, how long was Gortash's archducal coronation delayed, because we failed to trigger it until like 70% of the Act 3 content was done? The romance with Wyll genuinely shaped my experience of almost the whole game.

the lack of cuddles / morning-after talk following the proposal. I don't mind at all that we had a fade-to-black instead of showing more. Considering how seriously Wyll took intimacy, it actually felt respectful to the characters that their time together was just between them, if that makes sense. However, to then have it switch straight to my character sleeping alone on her bedroll in the usual long rest manner was quite disappointing. Couldn't the scene at least have shown them laying side by side and smiling or something?

...once they kidnapped his father (and are heard rejoicing at having done so, mocking the look on the duke's face, etc.), it became way more personal and pushed him up against the edge of becoming someone he didn't want to be.
Honestly, I was stunned at Wyll's lack of response on the various occasions where the goblins specifically boasted about the attack on Waukeen's Rest.

It was extremely refreshing to me that Wyll understood where his father was coming from. It showed that he knew the real reason for the rift between them was Mizora hiding the evidence. If he failed to see that, I'd have a lot less respect for him as a person.

...it felt so much like a bug that I started questioning whether other aspects of Wyll's story at this point were buggy. Like him declaring himself the Blade of Avernus if you leave the choice of the dukedom up to him and don't try to influence him one way or another. I was like: "You aren't the anything of Avernus, dear. You've broken your pact with Mizora and committed yourself to defeating the evils of the Hells. If anything, you're the Blade Against Avernus." It seemed like as much as a disconnect as the Duke saying his son had put his soul on the line so the Duke could walk free. No: we got his soul back and saved you, and Mizora's seething.

I agree that it's weird that the game leaves it up to us whether Wyll breaks the contract or signs it again. I would rather it was fully his choice. That being said, it can be interpreted as him being torn between wanting to be free and not wanting to abandon his father. However, this isn't airtight. In my playthrough, we knew about the Iron Throne and the prisoners there by the time Mizora made her offer, so none of Wyll's turmoil really made a huge amount of sense. One could say "oh, our characters pretended not to know; we played along with breaking the pact and being upset, so Mizora wouldn't just vanish and kill the Duke before we could get there." But the game presented Wyll's despair at "putting himself before his father" as being genuine, and all the companions seemed to see it that way too. I don't think Wyll is the kind of person to fake his feelings like that.

For all the flaws your confrontation with Shadowheart's parents has (you don't get to talk about them, or to them together with her, or with her at all after saving them really, she has nothing left to say), at least they do acknowledge your romance.

My character got to tell Sceleritas Fel that she loved Wyll - but she never got to tell Wyll himself! He said the words in the proposal, but I can't recall any conversation option to say it back.