Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Not loving Astarion Romance change (Patch 3)

If this should be in Story let me know but I feel its feedback for this change (and also general changes for Romances).

I also posted this in the reddit as well: https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGat...share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Patch 3 Act 2 change kinda sucks for Story telling reasons.

The love confession now only triggers
I remember when this triggered on my first playthrough. It felt spontaneous, organic and kind of a shock. I loved that because it's essentially his character really taking a leap of faith that Tav won't just drop him (or stake him) for his manipulative ways. Also it's his character expressing affection after 200 yrs of emotional turmoil and trauma. It felt like such a beautiful moment of vulnerability.

Now with the quest completion it feels more transactional. Whichreally dulls the emotional impact. Tav has given him something, now he knows he can give back. It's an exchange and I find that cheapens the interaction. Moreover there's nothing for Astarion to lose,. And walk into a lions den for him. The confession holds little risk for him. And thus I find it less vulnerable.

From a game play perspective I think they did this to draw out his content more, which is problematic as instead of addressing the lull in content they extend it which really messes with pace. At least for me I like to explore and take my time while doing companion quests and now it's pushed further down. I was not in love with the rush I felt (I was actually on this new run playing around with juggling two romances and didn't want to lock out either just yet).

Anyways just the tone and pace feels different so I'm kinda meh about it. It'd a shame because it's such a poignant moment. It seems to only affect new playthroughs though so I always have my old saves.

This probably wont get alot of air time like the other articles on the site but I feel like changes like this for pacing and story sequence really concern me because - thats significant change from the release product. If this trend continues alot of guides will be out of date (some of them already are for the romance ones) and the final state of the game will differ alot.

My main concern is that these decisions are being made and theres zero direction to them. I dont understand why the change was made but its now changed the story in an unneeded way. I rather they focus on things that *do* need to be changed. Like Endings. Like broken quests. Like fleshing out dialogue. Or Banter. etc.

Patch 3 feels like a non Larian contractor studio took care of everything. Ignoring the mandatory bug fixes, freakin weird and ridiculous changes.

I rather have the feeling that the initial EA storyline was from a contractor and the later rewrites, Emperor, Halsin, NewWyll, ect are all from the real Larian.

I saw this post earlier and was disappointed at this news, but I was very close to Act 2 again myself so I wanted to wait to confirm with my own run before commenting.

I didn't experience the change you described, so either they fixed it in Hotfix #9 that was launched between our posts (even though I don't see it indicated in the patch notes), or we just tripped different flags in our campaigns.

I just spoke with Araj (which put Astarion at 97 approval) and then long rested.
This triggered the romance flag cutscene, same as my previous run.
The conversation I got felt slightly different but I may be misremembering the dialog I picked, or it could be due to minor choice differences I made. The most notable probably being (if they even matter):
- This is a Resist Urge run
- I only slept with him once, and declined the second offer (at the party I just told him "maybe some other time" - the fake confession kinda put my boy off that night)
- Same as last time though I've declined romance routes from everyone else (I have flirted at Halsin a bit, but done other companion cutscenes right up until the point they get too intimate)

I did accept the quest from Raphael but I haven't set foot in the temple to even encounter Yurgir yet and I'm still flagged for romance and getting smooches, so on my end the romance flag seems to still be working as before.

There are two triggers for the romance convo that lead to two different versions of the it - high approval and meeting Araj. So, by talking to Araj before the romance convo happened you triggered it. I find that the convo you get after Araj is an inferiour version and I try to avoid it by not talking to her until my character had the talk with Astarion (or rather he with my character).

I played through Act 2 just a few days ago and I got the romance dialogue before I even sat foot in the mausoleum, so not sure why it did not trigger for you, OP. I had talked to Raphael at the Inn though.

During my very first playthrough I had the conversation trigger immediately after Raphael had told Astarion about the scars and I found it fit really well there (same long rest). Whereas I did not really get they same feeling when the conversation triggered too soon. I like that it's layed off a bit. So opinions on this can differ depending on our first experience I guess. I prefer to get it a lot later in Act 2, it came way too fast for me during my latest playthrough IMO.

Maybe this is why it felt different what I remember it being then.
I wasn't going out of my way to fish for Astarion points this run so I don't know if I'd still be able to get my approval that high without either the +10 from talking to Araj or finishing the quest at this point.

I just went to compare it to my original run's save file named "Pre Astarion Romance" which I would presumably have saved the night before his talk, but he's only at 76 approval in that load and nothing happens when I long rest with it (the save after it is at 79 approval and in a relationship).

It seems like they may have just adjusted the approval threshold for the conversation then, which may have skewed which conversation players are more likely to get based on progress vs approval?

So that's why the subreddit has been full of people complaining that Astarion broke up with them in Act 3.

Well, I tried pushing for more approval but the highest I can get it in Act 2 now without doing either Araj or Yurgir is 91.

91 was not enough to proc the conversation from high approval.

Discontent with Araj's version of the conversation (and now curious), reloaded to before it and went into the temple to talk Yurgir to death.
After Raphael closed the quest Astarion was at 97, Astarion's talk happened the night after Raphael's.

And THIS was the conversation I remembered having the first time I romanced Astarion (and I agree it feels much better than the one Araj proc's).

Judging from my previous save (which for my sanity I loaded again: 76 approval, had not visited Moonrise yet, and had not killed Yurgir yet), it seems like it used to be significantly easier to activate this conversation naturally.

I definitely think they could stand to bump it back down to like an 80+ range.

I stand corrected. I couldn't get the conversation to trigger before the Yurgir encounter/Raphael scene even with maxed out rep after the latest hotfix, so I guess it triggering before that was not intended. Which is ok for me as it is quite easy to max out his rep before you reach the shadow cursed lands if you are a more evilish character. I think having Raph's quest together with exceptional rep as a trigger is good because before the latest hotfix it triggered way too early in Act 2 for me.

Edit: The downside of a later trigger is of course that the chance is higher to trigger the post-Araj version which, as I said before, is not nearly as good because there is just one dialogue option where he tells you that he manipulated you at first and then happened to catch feelings for you. If you don't choose that option you're never getting that bit of information. And the "I care for you"-part seems to come a bit out of the blue. The whole convo does not flow naturally.

When I got to Moonrise, my relationship with Astarion was "exceptional" and yet, even though I didn't trigger Araj's conversation, I never got the romance scene (I got Gale's instead lol). So I can confirm that for the /real/ romance scene you need to follow up with his personal quest and kill Yurgir. Then, the following night you get the confession.

I am SO VERY SAD that in three playthroughs that I've romanced Astarion I never knew of this until now. Both conversations feel so different and imply so many different things. One feels kinda wrong, like you should just end up being friends because you started off like a very obvious fake thing and the dialogue doesn't help you understand this differently. Astarion still struggles with his feelings about relationships and his past and he's nowhere near ready to bump into a serious relationship. On the other hand, the other romance scene -even though it happens right after you do something important for him- feels true and sincere, almost as if Astarion made peace with his feelings for you despite his past and was somehow ready to delve into the beginning of a relationship. It really feels like he is falling for you instead of just feeling grateful for not forcing him into some random drow.

Although both conversations lead to the same outcome, they really shouldn't, one feels truer than the other. On future playthroughs, I will never, ever trigger the npc's conversation again.

I also felt like that romance scene triggering through Araj is just... too random and too early in Act II, I very much prefer a random event led by approval or after the completion of an important milestone on that character's personal quest.

The version of post-Araj convo after you push him to bite her is even worse and I can't decide if it's bugged or not.

Also, you can ignore Araj, get the high approval version of his confession, then go back to Araj and make him bite her with no repercussions. If this is what they tried to avoid by making the high approval version available only after Yurgir, they failed.

Idk if I'm emotionally ready to watch that lol xDD But I'm curious >_>

The way to go is ignore Araj then proceed as you see fit getting the juicy reward or just not making Astarion suffer anymore lol

It's not that bad.
I've tried it myself and there's videos on youtube, but I've also seen people say it doesn't work like that for them.

I'm one of those people - whatever I say, it's always a break-up. Which is kind of crazy since at that point you really could not foresee his strong reaction and it should have been possible to talk it out. Making him drink AFTER the confession though should 100% lead to a break-up, because you should have known better. It's really upside-down IMO.

Well hey at least now I know it's really a bug. Somehow.

Makes sense that he wouldn't want to talk it out immediately after, but I think we should get an opportunity after a couple more long rests.

I think it makes sense why this change happened, not only for pacing reasons but also to purposefully reinforce Astarion's transactional way of thinking and behaviour. It fits that now he will always confess after Tav has done him a favour. He's lived that way for centuries and thus is still unable to act differently, it's instinctive to him. He's only beginning to learn that there are people who can be good to him without wanting anything in exchange and vice versa - up until that point he's only played nice to get something out of it. Not only it's a behaviour dictated by his tragic lifestyle, but in this case he also gets solid proof that Tav actually cares about him on a personal level and not just because of his pretty looks, therefore he feels the impulse to approach them and drum up the courage to talk about genuine romantic feelings (which is something he may have never even done before).

Although the post-Araj confession could use some rework, it still worked perfectly for my drow Tav. It happened at the beginning of the act, when they were still getting familiar with each other and ended up actually amazed and excited that something that started off for both of them as 'l want someone I can trust on my side and let's enjoy ourselves while we still can because we might die any day now' turned into something deeper. For some reason Astarion has nothing to say about Tav being a drow (which he totally should, because these elves have a terrible reputation and are known for having slaves and treating men like crap. I picked the 'he's all mine' to appear like a proper female drow as part of the cover to infiltrate Moonrise Towers. When Astarion reacted so strongly to Araj, for me it was the only roleplay moment where my Seldarine Tav could truly show him he was more than a toy and a tool.
To me post-Araj confession seems meant for morally ambiguous characters who end up following the drider (the confession is totally spontaneous and blunt with him being grateful that Tav is actually a nice and trustworthy person after all - at least to him) and post-Yurgir for good-aligned who go to the inn first (the whole monologue feels like it was planned and likely even rehearsed by Astarion for some time - he already knows they are a nice person and believes they would prefer him to be soft with them).

I play Seldarine as well, odd how few actual calls to it are, the poisened gnome and Zevlor being more or less the only ones I can remember.
Its actually quite easy to still get the non araj dialogue. I managed it early in Act 2 as well by so I did that afterwards.
Just a shame you have to kinda know what you're doing to get it that way round though, as another poster said the Araj dialogue feels more transactional than the other one, which is more like hes been mulling over what has happened and comes to a few realisations he didn't have before, instead of a 'thank you' for a specific thing. Of course they are both transactional in a way but one feels much less so.
My first 2 playthroughs that convo was still the default first one with the Araj being the fall back if you'd someohow messed it up - and I loved it.

Well, that would be an insult, considering that the original storyline was much more interesting and adult. That's why in EA everyone here complained that Astarion and Shadow too rude... And Daisy idea worked much better.