Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Minthara path, not evil.

I don't agree with everyone about Minthara's path being evil:

I was still in doubt after Sazza told Minthara the location of the grove. I went back and wanted to talk to the thiefling at the gate, but as soon as I was there, they tried to arrest me, because I threatened children (Mol, who stole my stuff). I lost the roll so they attacked me. Made my choice really easy.

So you figured that the path with the group that was actively celebrating a raid in which they killed numerous innocent people, are eating some of said innocent people, getting ready to do another raid on innocent people and are led by cultists that advocate shoving tadpoles into people's heads that will eventually turn them all into Mind Flayers, because you:

-Decided for whatever reason to not be honest with a potential lead to fix your problem who then takes reasonable measures to deal with four potential existential threats to the grove and somehow provoked the rest of the grove in the process

-See that the goblins are not hostile until provoked when they are constantly acting aggressive towards you outside the camp and even inside the camp regard you with hostility, and is led by a brainless idiot priestess who drugs you just to have a Mind Flayer for a pet, a dumb muscle hobgoblin that will attempt to kill you if he thinks you have the artifact they're looking for, and Minthara

-Admit that a band of innocent refugees, including children, are caught in the crossfire, something that while Minthara says later was not necessary, she's still cool with you if you did that to "impress her" and is the same person that gets giddy when connecting with Durge's mind

Yeah, not the evil path.

1. Nettie only kills you, if you are really bad. She uses that as a last resort, when you don't work with her at all, because she and Halsin where just attacked by a tadpoled person and she is afraid, you might attack the grove. She is doing exactly, what most cautious people would do in her situation.
2. Freeing Halsin doesn't require killing goblin children at all. Those two never died in my playthrough - that is entirely your decision, if they die. Helping Minthara kills children though, without any chance otherwise.
3. Those goblins, that are not hostile, just attacked people in the wilderness, killed and roasted a dwarf and burnt down an inn, killing a lot of innocents.

So yeah, you were saying about siding with Minthara is not evil?

Why should I work with her? I don't know her, she is a druid from the grove, a lot of them already were not very nice to me, and they want to get rid of the thiefling refugees. So I should just trust her blindly with my tadpole problem? Or the artifact? You know, the thing everyone and their mothers are looking for?

It's your descision to not trust her, but then you have to bear the consequences. You are mean, she is mean - fair for everyone. But don't put it on her. If this is enough to excuse slaughtering kids in order to get Minthara - have at it. But don't pretend it is not evil, what you are doing.
And not all druids are happy with what Kagha does - in fact, if you take the time to talk to them, most actually want kagha to stop the ritual and casting the tieflings out.

Oh, and by the time, you usually meet up with Nattie, you don't know at all that the artifact is special, so you are metagaming right now. And the reason you are coming to the druid grove in the first place is to seek help, otehrwise, you don't have any reason to be there and meet Nattie. People are pointing you to her, because you asked for help.

1. You are speaking to Nettie because you asked about a healer, in the absense of Halsin she is the healer. Nettie just needs reassurance that you will deal with your problem in such a way as to not threaten the lives of everyone in the grove - a completely understandable stance. Why is it so hard to promise to take poison if you feel yourself turning? Wouldn't you want to? Unless you want to become a mind flayer at this stage of the game of course. It's not as if she is going to watch you constantly to make sure you do it.
Also theres no dialogue to even mention the artefact to her or anyone else in the grove, even Halsin when you free him. At this stage of the game no one needs to know about it at all.

2. Freeing Halsin does not require you to kill goblin children, It just requires you to kill the goblin leaders - 3 people, that's all. Any others are optional.
3. Hostile to whom? They are plenty hostile but you have sailed into their camp under a false flag of one sort or another. They can sense the parasite and assume you are one of them. Have you actually looked around the camp carefully, , burning people, eating people is all fine?

If you do the quest relating to Kaugha you can stop the ritual without freeing Halsin or even going into the goblin camp. She can even turn over a new leaf and become penitent about her choices. I have never found the druids to be unpleasant to me, they can be unpleasant to the tiefling refugees at the entrance to the ritual site but not to you for more than one minute at the same place, and no one else is unpleasant at all.
Minthara wants to slaughter the druids. The tieflings alongside many more children and everyone else will still be there because the goblins still have a leader and are still a threat to travellers. All of them, children included, will be slaughtered. Minthara doesn't care about collataral damage.

Unless you are using a mod then siding with Minthara is unquivocally taking the evil route and it's intended as such. Which is fine of course but don't pretend it isn't an evil choice.

ROFLMAO. perfect.

+1 it would also be amazing to play Minthara as an Origin character. I'd love to play her story before she joined the Absolute! Minthara is my ultimate favourite of the game!

Is there a consequence for swearing to your god as a cleric or paladin that you will take the poison if you start to feel yourself changing, and then not taking it when you start to feel a change?
Like when you start to feel changes during the campfire scene?
Or if you choose to evolve?

I feel like there should be if there isn't, but I wouldn't know since I always kill (or knock-out) Nettie because I cannot swear to her and my god that I'll do something that I know I will not do. My Tavs have been open to some petty deception sure, but not when it comes to swearing to their gods.

That said, I don't think one druid's ultimatum somehow makes attacking the grove any less evil?

Minthara's path unfortunately just starts bad.
Like you can do good before recruiting her and pivot to do good again after, but getting Minthara requires some terrible actions and tries to lock you into that darker path it starts on, since she's mutually exclusive with Halsin which means not only dooming the Grove but also
I wish there was a way to recruit or at least save her that wasn't so evil.
She's a great character who can only be enjoyed in very specific runs.

Lots of interesting viewpoints, thank you for sharing!

My main point is that from the viewpoint of an infected main character, this isn't as simple as this evil or that evil. Ultimately, it's about survival at the start.
The player is thrust into a role of an infected carrier, and all good aligned characters opt for killing them on sight IF aware of their affliction even if you are a good character.
The confrontation with Nettie shows that if any other member of the grove suspected you were infected, then you would be next on the table being dissected with the dead drow.


I love how many ways there are for players to impact and learn/change the story.

"My main point is that from the viewpoint of an infected main character, this isn't as simple as this evil or that evil. "

but it really IS that simple. hence why people point by point explained to you, with evidence, that it is.

that you are entirely ignoring these glaring facts is... weird.

1 its possible to have Minthara without killing the druids and horn kids
2 the druids are happy to kill those horn kids and in fact saving a kid from the druids is one of your first quest options on reaching the grove
3 its possible to have both Karlach and Minthara or Karlach and Wyll ... its even possible to have all 3 but i assume thats a bug
4 Minthara is evil, there is no getting around that but its the bug in her head that wants the druid grove wiped out

5 it was possible in patch 1 to have both Minthara and the carebear but Larian changed that in patch 2 along with other untested changes and hotfix 8 now undoes one of those but its 85% sure they should not be together

now with that out of the way there is evil and there is Minthara, one quest is killing the grove or saving it and the other is having Minthara or killing her... be clear about which you are thinking about

The standard path for Minthara is evil (which is a bit odd, as she's no worse than Astarion once you recruit her).

Less evil is the path where you provoke the druids to slaughter the tieflings, then help the goblins kill the druids. It's entirely possible to do that while being a non-evil character - Mol asks you to steal the idol to stop the rite (which might seem like a reasonable option to less-than-wise character), but if you do, the druids slaughter the tieflings. At that point, I think it's entirely reasonable for a non-evil character to throw up their hands and say 'screw it, the goblins can have the lot of you''. You don't even need to participate in the raid in this path, you just tell Minthara where to find the Grove and she handles it herself.

(somewhat oddly, however, your companions all treat you as if you personally murdered a bunch of tiefling children with your bare hands if you do this - Gale's dialogue is particularly out of place for this path).

Yea, I take a very similar approach with my characters.
There's a sense of desperation and urgency in the beginning, and as that starts to wane and they gain confidence in their companions and capabilities they feel less pressured to just Survive, which affords them the luxury of making choices that aren't as selfish, cowardly, or dismissive as they may have been at the start.

Character growth is fun.

Minthara very much made my Tav worse tho, because they were willing to do anything she asked, so there's that. But growing in the "wrong" direction is fun too.