Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Build Discussion I think I'm too dumb for Bard..

... because everyone seems to be raving about this class, but... I dunno.

Here's what I have so far:

Difficulty is Tactician for this one (my first run at that level)
Level 5, Human, College of Swords, Dueling.

Stats are something like this (from memory):

STR 8
DEX 16
CON 13 or 14
INT 8 (sacrificial stat, I thought, since you can always pick up that INT 17 headband)
WIS 10 or 12... not sure ATM
CHA 19

My usual party composition is Shadowheart to support/heal, Karlach for drawing aggro/killing stuff and Gale for AOE.

I probably made a mistake on my first feat where I put both points into CHA - I think I might try and revert that to either +2 DEX or +1 CHA / +1 DEX, giving me 18 DEX, 17 CHA or 17 DEX, 18 CHA.

I *am* using finesse-weapons so high DEX should benefit me I figured, besides lowering my chances to get hit. And since this is a Swords Bard, I should probably *only* invest in DEX from this point on, I guess, since CHA only benefits spell-casting in combat, right?

Or should I postpone the attribute upgrade and grab a different feat at level 4?

I have the usual spells in my book like Heat Metal, Faerie Fire, a healing spell and Hypnotic Pattern and Cloud of Daggers for a bit of AOE/Crowd Control.
I'm using him with (magic) light armor (total AC is 16 or 17 ATM, IIRC), a +1 Rapier and one of those Absolute-buffed shields (I am branded) for melee and two +1 hand crossbows for ranged attacks. I also gave him Crusher's Ring and I use a level 2 Longstrider at the start of each day on myself and another party member (usually Karlach) to give him more mobility.

Thing is: I think I'm playing him wrong and/or not fully committing to a play-style. What usually happens is that I try to open with some sort of AOE or debuff (Faerie Fire or Hypnosis for example) and then move to the rear and go into ranged attack mode. He does have the gloves of archery so his ranged damage and chance to hit aren't too bad - but it's nothing to write home about at this stage, really. But when I try to use him more up close and personal, he just gets annihilated in melee. Well... having just reloaded three or four times on that Gith fight near the map-exit to the Risen Road/monastary ... he does get annihilated pretty easily at long range, too..
After that unfortunate encounter at the bridge (Lae'zel got incapacitated on every one of my first three attempts before anyone in my party could even get a turn in, lol), I'm starting to wonder if my Tav and party are ready to face Auntie Ethel at this stage.


I played a sorcerer on my last run so I didn't want to go with College of Lore and it seems to me that "Swords" suggests a more direct approach to fights, but maybe I'm wrong? Should I just use the guy to hang back, wait for easy kills and do AOE/buffs? On that note: Are bardic inspirations generally better used for flourishes or for buffing other party members?


I do enjoy the options Bard gives you in dialogues and I generally like the idea of the class, so I'm not thinking of re-speccing/re-classing this dude - but any hints as to how to get the most out of him would be much appreciated at this point.


S.

Ok try this go with human or half something elf.
Then optimize your stat to 15 str 8 dex 16 con 16 charisma.
Use shield and pick dueling to ad+2 to your one handed weapon. At lvl 4 pick heavy armor feat and at lvl 8 pick pole arm mastery.
So you can have 2 multi attacks+1 bonus attack with this you will have insane armor class. Special if you will use defensive flourish. Use bardic for flourish.
I like to cast heat metal and blind. At lvl 10 you can steal some brutal spells from other classes. Haste and darkness are superb options.
I think around lvl 11-12 you need to respec and get rid of polarm master. Because vicious mockery is an enchant. And there is a ring that let you use all enchants as a bonus action.
This will make the bard push up to the insanely strong classes.

I am playing a bard in my third parallel campaign, also tactician. As you can expect, she is good at many things, but an expert only in conversation. In fights, she stays in the back. If possible, out of sight and out of attack range. That way she can contribute by buffing friends and incapacitating enemies. Most of her attack spells have wisdom saves, so it is worth examining enemies for low wisdom. Combat is mostly limited to finishing off enemies that are near death, so the damage that the main damage dealers deal is not wasted.
The gith patrol is a difficult encounter irrespective of class, I think. I have learned not to take Lae'zel there, in order to have more control of the situation. I have dealt with the encounter twice in my bard playthough. At first, the bard was able to convince the patrol not to attack. That left only the flaming fists to loot. I reloaded and then send only the character with the highest armour class down to do the talking. The rest, including the bard, stayed hidden on the bridge. That worked too. The bard turned out to be a favoured target for the gith, so it seemed best to cast/shoot first en then move away to safety.
So, to answer the question: yes, letting the guy hang back is a good way to play a bard, I think. And it is fitting roleplay.

Its still on the first page:

https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=901950

Since this is my first tactician-run and so I cannot compare apples to apples, what I'm about to say might not be entirely relevant, but:

I don't remember exactly if I had her there on both my previous runs (both on balanced), but I'm pretty sure I did at least once. I don't recall this encounter ever being *this* hard and, well, short. First attempt I didn't even know *what* they did to Lae'zel, but she was simply laying around prone and incapacitated until fight's end (I didn't bother reading the log). Plus these guys all have action surge IIRC, they do concentrate their fire pretty smartly and they do use those nasty bone-chill arrows. To top it all off, they all seemed to have higher initiative than any of my guys (whose initiative isn't all *that* bad for level 5 characters).

In any case: I had to re-load because they were simply massacring me during the first round, often, as mentioned, without me even being able to get any turns in. And if I did get a turn, at least one of my dudes was either downed already or very near to it. On my fourth attempt (I think) Lae'zel saved the initial attacks on her and she didn't get hit too hard, so she was available when it was my turn. The funny thing was that having her available, this almost felt like it was scripted, because she was able to take out two of the enemies in a single turn and all of her attacks had real crappy chances to hit (like 55% max... possibly lower). But all her hits did connect, each one dealt a lot of damage and then the fight was much easier to win. I didn't even use a Potion of Speed or Haste on her. Like I said: It almost felt as if because Lae'zel was available in the fight (and not incapacitated), the game *let* me win this one for some reason. Of course: Could've just been near lottery-jackpot-winning luck on my part..

In any case: I think I'll do what you suggested and just stick with my current play-style. I'll probably visit Withers to correct my mistake from the lvl 4 level-up, but I'll keep my Tav more or less as is for now, hoping for moar powaa through future level-ups. Being able to regain Bardic Inspiration after a short rest should help quite a bit already, but I haven't done much combat since I acquired that trait at level 5.

From what I've read, I should probably stop leveling Bard at level 8 (IIRC) and branch out into fighter? I haven't done multi-classing in any of my previous runs (don't really like the idea), but I might try it on this play-through.


S.

the low intel on Bard is a mistake but that 19 cha is waisted when not casting something so using the song blade would be better than a Rapier

Why whould you do like that bard is strong as it is.
Specially sword.
I played a ton of characters.
The most strongest single classes are Sword Bard / OA paladin/ OB paladin/ Beasmaster ranger/ Eldrich Knight / and Sorcerer /Monk.
Don't get me wrong other classes are perfectly capable to do everything. But my personal opinion they are the strongest.

My first play through was with a Bard and I chose the School of Lore. I used my Bard as a "light" Rogue for locks and traps and as a Dex building using a hand crossbow. He carried a lot of "special" arrows and then was heavy for support spells. Was VERY effective.

I was using the +1 rapier cause it was the best Finesse-weapon I could get my hands on at the time.
Since I didn't have enough GP on me to buy all the good stuff from the Gith-trader at the creche, I couldn't get the Undermountain King Sword. So I just went into the Underdark (a bit) to pick up the singing sword ... for free! Also killed Boulette "by accident", because it attacked me very early and then it couldn't save a command-spell from Shadowheart. Thus it couldn't escape and died after two rounds without getting an attack off.

Anyway: I'm not sure how I should allocate attributes differently without sacrificing other important values. STR is already at 8 so pretty damn low and 13 or 14 CON isn't exactly a lot, either (I think I have ..err.. 32 HP at level 5). Didn't want to go into negative modifier territory with WIS, either - because of dialogue/exploration issues. Not sure why I would need high/high-ish INT. Yes: I do get a -1 on INT-checks, but that gets modified to +3 overall by that silly-looking headband (thanks for including a "hide helmet"-option, Larian! ). I usually swap that thing out when I know combat is coming up, but I do agree I'd rather be running a more combat-oriented headpiece. Thing is: I'll never get higher than, say, 10 on base INT anyway, and I'm not sure if that would make such a huge difference. I don't really need INT in a fight, other than saving-throws, I suppose.

From all I understand, high DEX is pretty much a must for this type of build since I'm using ranged attacks and chose duelling - so I'm using a finesse weapon and shield for melee. It also lets me obtain pretty good AC without having to go beyond light armor.

I agree that CHA seems a bit wasted here if I don't use spells that often... it's still nice to have when I do use a spell and for trading and persuasion. Perhaps I'll try a class other than fighter if I do decide to multiclass... something that also relies on CHA. Too bad I already did a sorcerer on my last play-through...

All that said: I did go to Withers to re-allocate my attributes a bit and am now sitting at 17 DEX and 18 CHA. My plan is to let Tav eat the Hag's hair (yuk!) for +1 to DEX, then grab some sort of feat at level 8 (War Caster? Resilient for CON? Sharpshooter?) and then another attribute boost at 12, probably to push DEX to 20. I could use gloves of dexterity I just bought, I suppose ... but I'd rather put those on Karlach to boost her AC and effectiveness with the Titanstring Bow. Even Berzerkers need to use bows from time to time ..



S.

I am considering dumping both Wis and Int to 8 for a bard (College of Valor) run in a co-op tactician... so it can be worse actually. RP-wise it would be more challenging but I guess I will just say he is lazy and very horny hence one of the reasons for his low wisdom and intelligence.

STR 16
DEX 12
CON 14
INT 8
WIS 8
CHA 16

I digress. My point is I do not see any problem in your bard's ability scores. Back to topic.

For main stats, I still think the bards should excel in spellcasting. You might be able to get some items that boost dexterity in the coming levels. Or failing that, you could just get into compromise of 18 dex and 18 charisma (I would still recommend you to prioritize charisma first).

I soloed tractition as a lone wolf bard, it’s literally God Mode class if you know what to do

I did the same thing - it was a fun run.

Same here with the "Thief Light"-thing... Astarion's been out of a job for my entire run. Even before I bought/used the Gloves of Thieving, this Tav was quite good at doing all the Rogue stuff - and with the gloves and inspiration, he's *nearly* as good as a Rogue would be at this level.

I also did the dual crossbow gunslinger thing initially, but it felt a bit too cheesy to me. I've since switched to the Bow of the Banshee. Luckily the game *will* apply effects like that bow's Fear to both your targets when you're using the multiple-target flourish. So with the extra attack you're getting at...err lvl5? lvl6? you can hit four enemies per round and also, potentially, apply a pretty serious de-buff to all of them. I just wish I could wear both the Gloves of Wonder and the Archery Gloves at the same time.. Haven't found any other, non-glove gear yet that will grant me additional Bard-charges, so the Wonder-gloves are a bit of a must.

I'm still a bit all over the place WRT melee vs ranged play-style, but I figure it's just a "jack of all trades"-thing and fits a Bard. If the encounter allows for it, I will go melee (ideally "wasting" a turn by activating the shrieking sword), but going crowd-control/mass debuff spell first and then ranged flourishes also works quite nicely.

While all classes only seem to get into their own beyond a certain level, I will say that this class really needs a few levels more before that happens. I just made level 8, but even at 6 or 7 my Bard felt way more useful and powerful than at lower levels. Almost feels like a different character. I suppose extra attack and the fact that he now gets back his inspirations during short rests really make the difference. Plus the access to some more useful spells like Hypnotic Pattern or Confusion.

I still don't know what to do on my next level up (8 > 9). From all I've been reading, Bards drop off a bit beyond a certain level (either 8 or 10, depending on the source), so I might have to really do multi-classing for the first time ever in this game. Not a huge fan of the concept, but since I plan to re-spec Jaheira to a (Spore-)Druid/Fighter to stick with her original lore and make her more viable as a permanent team-member, I'm not ruling out multi-classing on my Bard-Tav.


S.

what the point of melee bard if fighter/barb/paladin doing it better ?
what the point of magic bard if sorc or wiz doing it better ?

if want charismatic melee paladin doing it better lol

if you rly want stay at bard multiclass it with paladin or warlock, both have melee option

i used my sorc with 16 dex and 18 dex with cat robe to open locks lol

Well... by that logic I could just run four halfling barbarians and simply smash every locked door/chest and use my sword or axe to resolve every dialogue.





The point isn't that I want "the best" single class... I want to have some fun and variety with a different class other than Rogue/Assassin (did that on my first run) or Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer (second run).

S.

Well... by that logic I could just run four halfling barbarians and simply smash every locked door/chest and use my sword or axe to resolve every dialogue.





The point isn't that I want "the best" single class... I want to have some fun and variety with a different class other than Rogue/Assassin (did that on my first run) or Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer (second run).

S.[/quote]

you cant force open every lock in game using weapon, your argument is invalid and you will have problem to pass game with 4 psysical meles on some bosses that are immune or heavy resistant to psysical damage lol

... Because bards can be excellent casters, give buffs and do a few other things the aforementioned classes can not. Jack of all trades for a reason. Plus sticking to one's oath is problematic for some players and they do not necessarily want to play as an oathbreaker (leaving aside the question how a character who has broken his vow so easily has ever become a paladin at all )

As for lock picking and perception, classes with expertise (rogues and bards) simply rule. I can't imagine the first chapter without Astarion, for example.

bards excelents casters, my fire sorc just loled hard who can do like 300 damage to single target with scaled ray to level 6 with full stack of heat and light dmg ring, can do dual haste and his lighting aoe can kill whole palace stell watch in act 3 in one turn

my life cleric or light cleric who can cast blade ward and bless on whole team with single bonus action also laugh hard about support role of bard

my ancient paladin with anti magic aura and smites also laugh hard about support role and nuker to bard xD

my sorc with cat robe and 18 dex can pick any lock and same sorc with high charisma qnd friend cantrip have always like 30 check in talking

my bear barb or fighter laugh how bard is bad in melee

Bards are able to be a jack of all trades but mater of none. I used a bard in a support role and as the party face during my first playthrough and it was a lot of fun. However if you are looking for a character that is the BEST at anyone thing, the Bard is not for you.

main problem is that you can use only 4 chars in team, i tried archer bard and melee bard both sucks and caster bard compered to sorc or wizzard is no comment or support to cleric or paladin