Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Feedback: The Companions Should Be Their Own People

I’m brand new to these forums, so if there’s a mega discussion on this topic please feel free to point me there.

When I first started BG3 and made my Tav, I was surprised and delighted when Lae’zel and Shadowheart squabbled right away on the nautiloid. I was excited to see that these two characters seemingly would have their own relationship to one another, and reacted to one another so strongly. For that reason I was happy when Shadowheart tried to fight Lae’zel — Shadowheart had her own opinions of Lae’zel and took her own action independent of anything that I’d done. Sure, my Tav was able to step in and cool the tension, but the fact it happened at all was something I was so excited about.

But, now that I’m starting Act 3, I’m equally disappointed to see that that was kind of the beginning and end of those fully independent companion moments (at least with what I’ve seen so far). If those moments had been leaned into a lot more that’s where BG3 could have gone from a good game to the premier title in a modern NPC companion RPG in my eyes. I honestly would have preferred to not have the companions be Origin options and to only have Custom and Durge Tav if it meant those resources could have been used to flesh them out within Tav’s origin.

I would have loved to see the companions talking to each other at camp, milling around doing different activities to pass the down time — forming relationships with one another and having lives within the group but regardless of Tav and the players choices. Especially in a game based on DND where the group as a whole is the ‘main character’, there’s no reason for them to basically only come alive when Tav talks to them or for Tav to be the decision maker with very rare party input. I so strongly wanted to be able to cultivate a feeling of a cohesive and bonded party of friends or allys fighting along side one another, each with their own sense of life outside of the main PC.

Little things would have gone a long way to achieving this feeling for me. I want to see dexterous Astarion trying to teach bull in a China shop Karlach to pick a lock, or Wyll and Gale comparing Warlock vs Wizard spell theory. I want to listen in as Jaheira and Halsin share stories of their lives as old druids, or maybe learn that Gale is shockingly good at Faerun blackjack because his high INT lets him count cards. When they’re not interacting with a fellow party member their idle animations could be so much richer and more varied — Astarion could sit in the sun and drink wine, or Shadowheart could be tending to her plants or sitting on her pillow writing with the quill and ink.

The blue dots in the mini map could have been permanent mini portraits that track the companions as they move around to show their location, and when the player needs someone they can find them hanging around wherever they are. The ambient banter or animation could turn into a small cut scene where Tav interrupts whatever they’re doing with a ‘Can I talk to you for a second?’ and then pull that companion away to talk. What goes on behind the scenes when Tav isn’t paying attention? Who’s really bad at their turn on dinner duty? Does someone snore, or does one of the non elves think it’s a little weird how the elves meditate instead of sleep? These are the kinds of fleshed out character moments I would have loved to see, but instead the companions mostly stand or sit in one spot and do basically one idle animation.

In the same vein, the dial on party banter while out and about and party comments during cut scenes needs to be fixed or turned up by at least half. It’s extremely awkward to carry on a conversation with an NPC while 3 other people stand dead silent and staring behind you, giving basically no comments or input. If these things are supposed to be there the triggers aren’t firing in my game.

Some people may find my feedback the exact opposite of what they want, but personally I play these types of RPGs for the companions. Often their stories and personalities are what keep me playing, often times over the bigger plot line. I was really hoping that Larian would really give it all they had in an game based on a TTRPG that can be so character focused.

Overall, I agree. At least in the sense of what the "ideal" would be in a game. I love the origin characters and their stories (for the most part, anyway). That said, I was surprised that there was not an option to make them level "on their own" and that I was instead in full control of how they progressed from a leveling-up standpoint. It made them feel more like characters I was molding into what I thought they should be instead of what their stories thought they should be. I always sat there trying to think about what they would decide for a skill, spell, or feat. Ultimately, however, because the choice was mine their character development felt more arbitrary. On the other hand, I love to spend a lot of time in the level up screens considering all options - so that was fun.

I would also agree that their truly independent personalities and natures where really strong in Act 1 and then seemed to taper off after that. The companion quests did help keep some of those moments intact, though, throughout later acts. Your comments about them not doing anything while at camp are valid.

Ultimately, your desire to see this kind of depth in character development would probably mean that they would not be received well as playable characters. A trade off, to be sure. One I can see both sides of. Overall, though, I will say that BG3 has done an exceptional job of providing intricate character options while still offering the ability to play and shape them to your liking.

Shadowheart was so out of pocket, coming at Lae'zel knives out! lol

She got a rude awakening on the first night out for sure. Second time around we realized they could be persuaded to go along to get along hehe, but yeah, their sparing and trading jabs and barbs in the early game was a highlight.

I like the idea of interrupting little side reels where the companions are engaging with each other. Sometimes bickering, sometimes just doing amusing little whatevers to make it more of a setpiece that we interact with. All those suggestions sound fun. Sometimes if we walked up to Lae'zel she should just hand wave us away with a Tsk'va, but then it focuses on banter between Shadowheart doing something with Astarion, that sort of thing, to mix it up. I think the idea of party leader could also be fun, like where we can let the camp descend into chaos or try to exert influence and be all micromanagial about it hehe. Like telling Gale we need that cookbook, and start pulling weight. Or maybe Shadowheart comes around with some tea that we should drink to forget our pains, with a clerical angle, Lae'zel balks of course, that sort sort of stuff. The idea of the characters sort of training each other is also cool I think, where if they hang around each other long enough they maybe synergize and pick a favorite so you get natural pairings over time, maybe sometimes unpredictably. The dysfunctional party is my favorite trope, I think it would be a fun excuse to bring back all the actors and just really lean into it for whatever expansion. The characters are pretty established now, but they could probably riff for the cross companion banters with little short scenes and camp interludes amongst each other. I think it would have worked better as the 5th wheel if a 4 person party, or just 6 wheels at a time maybe, cause then they could lean into it a bit more, but that's a different thread I guess.

Larian talked up their companions (and romances) a lot and it turned out the check bounced. You start the game as a bunch of dudes and you end the game as a bunch of dudes. Camp interactions almost non-existent. Banter anemic. Romances are 'every RPG romance' despite advertisement otherwise while at the same time feeling, hollow, compromised or unfinished. Not helped by platonic relationships getting the short end of the stick by an entire foot. Even the low hanging fruit of having custom stat blocks for their (often meme-tier) backstory was completely passed up.

The Origin mechanic was a mistake and is a big part of why this feels like Divinity 3 than anything else. Literally every companion's story save Astarion is tied to the main narrative, often via asinine coincidences, and the original plan was to rope Astarion in to it too. By Larian's own numbers, the vast majority of people make their own custom character and the few that do choose to play an Origin gets no VO and barely reacts to their own story anyway, so what was the point?

I agree, even from a pure difficulty level standpoint it only really makes sense playing on the middle and hardest difficulty. I played on Explorer because I wanted to experience the story , it was strange to then have to go in every level and decide Gale’s spells. Like you said, it should have been optional.


Agreed. Currently I’m running Resistant Durge Tav and romancing Non-Ascended Astarion, and I can honestly say I adore the romance. Convincing him not to complete the ritual, having him watch over Tav and talk them through the night after the Durge takes over and tries to kill him — chefs kiss. What’s also true is the romance doesn’t really feel like exists outside of romance quest line specific cutscenes, just like every other RPG. Astarion hardly ever breaks in to side quest conversation in a way that acknowledges the romance is even happening and I take him literally everywhere. My Durge passed out in public after his romance plotline was completed and he had zero reaction. I think he even made a comment alluding to not caring if my Tav got injured as part of another side quest. I was so pleasantly surprised when even Withers commented on Astarion and I in Act 1, but neither Withers or anyone else has in Act 2 or 3.

Someone else either here or Reddit said cutscenes for the LIs should be able to initiate without us interacting with them at all and I agree. I’d love to go to camp and have a spontaneous little romance cutscene start with Astarion that’s got nothing to do with his main quest line. It’s a totally different feeling from me having to walk over and click on him for anything to happen; another way they could feel like living characters instead of dolls waiting to be interacted with.

I also agree with the platonic relationships being shafted. I got to exceptional approval with Gale almost immediately; after I turned down his romance or locked in with Astarion Gale should have been able to become my best friend. But there’s literally no difference between the relationship at Exceptional level with Gale as the Neutral level with Wyll or Karlach. Just like everything else, there was a glimmer of hope in Act 1 that the different positive approval levels might really reflect when they refused to elaborate on their backstories because I didn’t know them well enough, but all that fizzled out by Act 3.

I just watched third Dev'zel playthrough (where the Lae'zel VA tries playing BG3 for the first time with the PS5) and had some ideas for stuff it would be good to have.

First Lae'zel could just always have training advice for the player. So anytime you click her character, even if you've exhausted the current plot banters, there could still be trainer banters where she can impart random wisdom about weapons and damage types. Such a thing could basically serve as a built-in extended tutorial for melee and ranged combat. For Gith characters another set of training lines that play into that as well.

I also noted how immediately upon encountering the party limit at 4, Dev'zel was like 'wait what? I thought it would be 6' which is the exact feeling I had hehe, but anyway, lets say there are 3 other active members in the party... They could each have some kind of ad-lib trainer that explains the mechanics of their class via dialog or scrimmages. So for Lae'zel also using the combat punching bag she has right by her tent. It could work for each of their mains and explain sorta the ins and outs of the different moves and spells associated with their character archetype.

So for the examples already provided about Astarion teaching Karlach how to the do the lock pick, that's like a perfect segue for the Tav to either learn that mechanic from Astarion, or maybe some sort of rage-bash-the-crate-open approach from Karlach, either of which then pulls the character into an optional tutorial/trainer vignette. In the early game they could do this for all the major gameplay mechanics, like all of them, split across the a dozen characters that we have.

-Advanced combat tactics and readiness protocols with Lae'zel.

-Deception trickery, Barter and Stealing and some merchant basics, primer on divine magic and healing with Shadowheart.

-Astarion's dash, stealth and lockbusting, or dress 'em up continued inventory tour to include camp apparel.

-Wizards wands and a way with words or Gales misty step and feather fall workout routine, plus potions.

-Wyll's familiars, crowd control and bonus actions with scrolls.

-Karlach's breakdance and breakcrates, guides to environmental damage, thrown objects and status effects.

Stuff like that. Basically so each character can cover some of the systems, but done up with flare. Other setpiece type tutorials might come later in act 2 with other characters introduced or at thematic points in the story to highlight certain aspects of class maybe. Just giving them something to tee off, and then they could do little pairings that way. I think foraging, cooking, eating, bathing and swimming to clean up afterwards, those could all be fun, or any trainer type stuff at camp. Little places for pause interludes.

For every people who likes origins stories tied to the main game, a dozen does NOT and wants their own character and better cross NPC banters and stories.

Ideas are good guys, but I'm beginning to think that everyone would lead to feature creep here.

The characters used to be more of their own people, but Larian cut it all prior to release.

This is definitely something that’s come up numerous times both in EA and since release, though I don’t think there’s a specific mega thread

I agree that key things that could be done to bring companions to life, and give more of a true party adventure feel, would be better banter, more companion interjections in dialogue, and more companion-to-companion scenes (I’d love it if we could sometimes see them chatting to one another in camp).

In my playthrough, also, loads of the companion banter in acts 2&3 was cut off by a bug with Shadowheart repeatedly complaining about her wound … even after it should have been cured. I’m sure it wouldn’t address all the problems, but a fix to that so we actually get the later act banter when Shadowheart is in the party would certainly help. Not sure if that’s already been done in one of the recent hotfixes and patches, as with one thing and another I’ve not had chance to properly play for weeks.