Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Build Discussion Is There A Point in Valor Bard?

Title is the question.

Lore Bard is the go-to for caster bards because of Magical Secrets. They also get cutting words.

Swords Bard can pump out much more damage because of flourishes, making them powerful melee fighters and even stronger archers using dual hand xbows.

Valor Bards however.... get nothing but a different form of Inspiration that you have to use on your party members and can't use on yourself.

I mean, I get it -- Bards are "supposed" to be the party buffer fantasy, but most of the other bard subclasses - even those not in BG3 - get some way to use their Inspiration for themselves, such as the Swords using it for their Flourishes.

Valor "used" to be the Bard to go for to get medium armor proficiency and shield proficiency.... but Larian's homebrew for Humans and Half-Elves giving them Shield Prof as a racial and Gith getting Medium Armor as a proficiency really makes Valor very lackluster, more so than it already usually is.

So is there a point to Valor that I'm missing -- or is it just a option you have to choose if you want to play a Bard that basically doesn't have much of a subclass and has to burn their action economy using Inspiration on their party members?

what they get is weapons and armour yes humans and gith get some of that two but you may be playing a halforc or a halfling

there is no point to play bard
any melee is better than him - barb,fighter,monk,paladin
any caster is better than him - sorc, wizzard even warlock
any support is better than him like life cleric or even paladin
any ranger is better than him in ranged psysical lol

I thought so too until I played a Bard, they are awesome. Easily the best "face" character for your party. Not great in melee true. However as a caster he brings a little of the magic, a little of the cleric and even a little of the rogue to the group. I used my Bard to replace my groups Rogue and glad I did, way more versatile. Your are correct he is not as strong in any one area of more specific options but his versatility is unmatched.

If you want to play optimally, no, there is not. There is nothing Valor can do which is as good as Sword Bard, and they occupy a similar space. They’re not the worst subclass out there but they’re a lot closer to the bottom than they are to the middle of the pack.

All that being said, it’s not always about optimal play, and not every choice needs to be equally valid. For those who want to play a plucky halfling Bard who want to wear medium armor but don’t want to use a feat or multiclass at all, they’re certainly an option. If you’re sitting there thinking ‘why would I take this?’ It’s probably a better choice to not do so.

Edit: fwiw swords Bard has the highest burst damage ability in the game in slashing flourish (ranged), there’s a video in the feat thread of swords Bard solo killing Raphael, dealing nearly 700 damage in a turn. They definitely can pump out more damage ranged than a fighter, Ranger or Rogue if built properly, though of course they benefit from a dip in any or all of them to increase the number of attacks to silly levels.

They also have fantastic spells, and since all you need is 1 level of Wizard to have full spellcasting with them, a Bard11/Wiz1 is very powerful. They’re very good with skill distribution as well and indeed serve as a great generalist, but the idea they’re a weak spellcaster or weaker ranged than martials is quite unsupported imho. instead they’re one of the strongest classes out there, with a large number of powerful, viable builds depending on which aspect of their kit you want to focus on.

You'll learn to just chuckle at what Dynia says, and ignore it.

I was responding to Zhentu, specifically the line "Your are correct he is not as strong in any one area of more specific options". Should've quoted but I didn't want to double post and it's harder to do on an edit. Just saying, the surest way to ignore what someone has is to have them on ignore, which is an option I support and utilize when there is cause.

I haven't played bard much, but yes, I was astounded at the swords-bard's flourishes. Way OP at a glance, particularly the later short rest refresh. Reminds me of gloomstalker.

I guess a Str valor-bard can use the legendary greatswords? But a Dex swords-bard will out DPR them no problem.

Well, Bard is supposed to be the Jack of all Trades class, and in D&D3 (and thus BG3) they very nearly are the Master of all Trades class, so much so that if they would make Bard any stronger, even I, a fan of the Bard class, would complain they are overpowered.

Feels really good, too, because Bards have been seriously underpowered in D&D2 and D&D3, where I refused to touch them, despite liking the idea of the class. But they just had too many gross drawbacks. Now all the issues have been fixed, Bards can cast spells in armor, Bards can take over for a Rogue, Bards have their own spell list, Bards are full spellcasters like Wizards and Sorcerers and Clerics and Druids; really my only remaining complaint is in order to get Bard Inspiration on a Bard you need a second Bard, a detail that still brandmarks the Bard as the enternal sidekick.

As already mentioned by others, the Bard College of Swords might already be overpowered, so those Flourishes probably should be fixed.

But I honestly cant see much use for the Bard College of Valor, unless you would want to play a tank Bard. But even in that case I would probably dip into one level of Life Domain Cleric, to get heavy armor as well, and go for Lore Bard otherwise. You miss out on the extra attack of course, but you get the Cutting Words and of course the extra skills and spells.

IMO: As far as single class characters go, no. Bards are full casters and as far as spellcasting goes, Lore Bard is the better choice. As far as class combinations go, Valor Bard has some good options, the most obvious of which is Valor Bard 7/Warlock 5. This way you get stacking extra attacks from both class, you can use Charisma for spells and weapon attacks and also have a nice class feature to increase AC when needed. It's debatable whether Valor Bard is a good as Paladin in that regard, but definitely viable.

Wrong.

You only get the extra attack once.

The only way to get two extra attacks is if you go pure Fighter. All other extra attacks are the same feat, which doesnt stack.

Isn't there a thing or a bug that makes the extra attack from pact of the blade stack with the one from the second class ? I'm pretty sure there is.

Whether it's intended or not, the Warlock extra attack currently stacks with other extra attacks, allowing three attacks for non-fighters.

Yeah, that's what I thought. That's one of the reasons that makes warlock / paladin so broken.

Thats a bug then though.

Original D&D5 rules clearly state it shouldnt stack. Only way to get legally two extra attacks is being Fighter 11. And for three attacks you need Fighter 17.

It is not a bug.
It hasn't been changed for 4 patches while being "reported" since the release. On top of that, it is coded to stack and not like any other extra attack.

Too powerfull or not is another matter... But I'm personnaly glad it stack ! It allow many interresting melee build.

Wait, what ? Because it wasnt fixed just yet, its not a bug ? LOL ??? Whatever this is supposed to be, this doesnt resemble earth logic.

Neither has Cleric11/Wizard1 being able to learn all spells. Which they confirmed they want to fix in the end.

Theres other bugs they had. For example Berserker could rage in heavy armor. Not sure if they already fixed that one.

I haven't heard any official word that it's unintended. Maybe it is, I don't know.

Simply put, it's hard to tell because there are differences between 5e and BG3, so pointing to 5e isn't necessarily authoritative. And that is especially true when it comes to how Pact of the Blade is functioning, which is clearly tweaked for the purposes of BG3. (In a good way, imo.)

Are you saying that rage wearing heavy armor does not give the "rage impeded" buff as it should ?

At least according to the wiki : https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Rage

Warlock extra attacks definitely stack with other extra attacks in BG3, even though they wouldn't in the pen and paper game.