Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Build Discussion Druid Class is Disappointing

...for someone coming from tabletop. Ahem, this will be a complaint post, but let me throw a few caveats out before I begin. Also I originally posted this on reddit but having lurked here for a while I think it might be better to post this here.

1. Druid is viable as a class, and actually pretty strong.

2. Baldur's Gate 3 is still my game of the year. My gripes with one class won't detract from the fact this game is amazing.



With that out of the way, I think Larian's changes to core mechanics and druid mechanics *really* messed up the typical druid fantasy. In tabletop, Druid has the second most versatile spell selection behind wizard, a plethora of control spells, tons of utility, the ability to jack of all trades reasonably well, but very mediocre damage. In BG3, druid spell selection is actually insanely gimped, their control spells are hard countered by game mechanics and bugs, their utility falls behind, but they gain a LOT of damage. Even though it features many of the same mechanics, the balance is so heavily shifted away from their typical strengths that they feel like a different class. So I'm going to go through each category and focus on why they failed to implement the class in a familiar way.



Control Spells

The way that druids controlled the battlefield was always focused less on direct debuffs(such as hypnotic pattern), and more so on terrain modification. But almost all of the control spells as implemented are severely gimped by the mechanics changes, to the point I wouldn't even consider Druid to be a viable controller. It can be WHEN it works, but it's a tossup IF it works in a given fight. Going through the list...

Fog Cloud - Doesn't work properly with vertical interactions. If you are fighting on any sort of uneven terrain or from above/below, the enemy can often fire out of the fog cloud without suffering the downsides. I saw this especially suffer in the Zhentarim hideout with the crates and cliffs, but you'll find it fails to work correctly even in more "normal" terrain.

Entangle - AoE width was heavily nerfed, and can be jumped over. Can also be destroyed by an errant candle or any fire damage. Also switching between melee and ranged without cost means it can be ignored by most enemies.

Spike Growth - Amazing damage still, but same as Entangle. Countered by free weapon swaps, any fire, and the jump ability.

Plant Growth - All the same counters apply. Weapon swaps, fire, jump.

Sleet Storm - Doesn't obscure anymore. In tabletop it would douse open flames, but in this fire seems to counter it?

In summary, druid control spells are still okay when they work, but the inconsistency and design changes heavily nerf it to the point of frustration.

Spell Selection

I don't need to go into this too much, but suffice it to say they have the narrowest selection outside of perhaps Cleric at certain levels. They only get 6 3rd level spells. No summoning spells are present until level 7. Sorcerers and Bard get far wider selections(even if they can't take them all at once). I know Larian wasn't trying to pull in spells from supplements and just focus on things from the player's handbook, but many changes to base spells also hurt. If they were going to do that they could have at least included some of the niche but powerful options like Wind Wall, but nope. Goodberry's whole point of viability was that it could be used to heal without any waste. Lowering the amount of berries and adding randomness makes the spell absolutely awful, and kind of kills Druid as a secondary healer since efficiency was why they functioned. If they allowed lifeberry it might counteract it, but not as is. A lot of the changes betray a misunderstanding of what druids are supposed to be. Also why are there NO summoning spells for animals?

Damage Options

This is actually an area where druids got buffed, and *MASSIVELY*. The thing is, there's already tons of damage options, and druids were always supposed to be more defensive in nature. Why does Moonbeam hit twice per turn? Why can you empower call lightning with a flask of water or a first level spell? Druids were never supposed to be high damage dealers, and now they're one of the best blasters in the game. It doesn't feel right at all. It's even worse when you factor in wild shape(which has its own problems). Most wild shape options are mediocre, but things like the owlbear are kind of ridiculous. All together the class shifted away from utility towards blasting, and it doesn't feel at all like tabletop.

Wild Shape

Hoo boy, this is a fun one. I'm glad for the bug fixes, but they still got wild shape wrong for the most part. In tabletop, it was overpowered at low levels(thank god they fixed that at least), but had a lot of different forms for different situations. As an example, you'd use Bear as your standard "fighter", Hyena for when you needed more HP and range(Hyena was *fast*) to deal with snipers in an open area. Spider forms for enemies in elevated positions. Wolf for enhancing ally damage and dealing more damage.

They *tried* to do this in BG3, but for the most part they actually made the balance between forms significantly worse. Bear is middling, as goading roar is inefficient and kinda buggy. Wolf gets one auto crit(which is nice), but otherwise kinda sucks. Spider is *completely* overpowered with at will web and a super jump. Then you get no other good forms until Owlbear which trivializes tons of content by being so powerful. Tabletop had issues with wild shape being too strong at certain levels, but did a good job making similar CR forms competitive with each other. And for the love of god let us use our concentration spells while wildshaped! BG3 got the balance of forms relatively to other part members better, but made it so that you generally use only 1 form most of the time.

Conclusion

Druids don't feel right at all. They're best as a magical blaster now, or abusing one or two high damage shapeshift forms. Their utility, control, and flexibility got pretty gutted compared to tabletop. Some of it was due to bugs. Some of it was due to core gameplay changes. And some of it was due to 3rd level spells being hard countered by a freaking candle. A lot of this could be fixed with some simple tweaks.

Make Moonbeam work as it did in tabletop. Make "wet" only add a little of damage to lighting spells, rather than the massive boost. Fix vertical sight obstruction. Either change how jumping interacts with terrain hazards, or boost the AoE back to tabletop. Make terrain hazards not hard countered by *any* source of fire. Make sleet storm have a fog effect included. And do a balance pass on wild shape forms. Moon druid exclusive forms should be a lot stronger. Forms for all druids should be weaker, or have at least a cooldown for things like web spam. Bring back conjure animals as a 3rd level spell(but nerf it heavily! maybe only 1-2 animals?), as well as wind wall or warding wind.

As is, I'm probably going to restart as a bard because by level 6 I'm tired of playing druid. It's just too inconsistent and not enjoyable. It's not that the class is even bad. It's just not the defensive utility platform it's supposed to be. I think this is the only class they really dropped the ball on.

Try out Jaheira bro.. Halsin Sux indeed.. She is the Better Druid..
i felt the same as yu i love druids in Table Top but in this Game the Only Druid i liked to use was her..
(and i had to Mix her with 3 Thief and 2 Fighter to make her a True Beast in Melee)
Full Druid in this game dosent worth indeed its always better to Mix with another Stuff to make it work well..

Its a tough one. I think because the early game is so druid centered that I had very high hopes.

For BG1 my main memory of the druid class was as a summoner. Like especially in that first one when you could summon as many animals as your RAM could handle hehe.

I think they could do more with that.

Goodberry is a tricky one, you'd think they'd have plenty to eat at the Emerald Grove on that score hehe, but getting that spell to work right has been dogging the game from the getgo, like back to AD&D at least when it first cropped up.

I do like that there are points in the game where we can use them for plot purposes. Couple scenes at camp might help give them more appeal, but it's all tied to the resting if they become too useful as camp supplies. Still the whole idea of scrounging around for cheese and sausages seems weird if playing a druid.

I think animal summons could go a long way. I always kinda prefered that archetype to the shifter. Faldorn's Dire Wolf summon as opposed to Cernd's Werewolf form and such.

Also in addition to concentration while wild shaped, druids are just hit pretty hard with conflicting concentration spells. It's the same for all casters in BG3, but somehow Druids feel like they get the short end of the stick, since there are fewer druidic spells overall. Instead of the Ring of Holiness like we had in BG1, maybe a Druidic ring with like x2 Concetration spells? Something like that might have been cool for an early get.

I also agree that the various vines and spikes are too easy to neutralize with fire hehe. Part of their whole elemental intuition thing, should make their plant growth type spells more durable vs that sort of counter.

They could do some stuff as well to make forestry more relevant to navagating the various outdoor areas, giving Druids an edge on that, for exploration.

For a plot angle, a Druidic moot would be rad!

I think they could do things with that or through itemization to help with the flavor. More clubs and quarterstaves as well since there isn't a ton to use with the shillelagh cantrip. Thorn whip is fun since its like the only early spell that can do a pull action, but probably needs more to play off.

We do have a specific moon druid subclass feedback thread at https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=880699 that you might be interested in, and I've moved this thread to our Build subforum from General, as that's where we're also discussing class/subclass implementation feedback.

We don't have a stickied general druid class feedback thread, though I'm perfectly happy to make one. If folk think this or any other discussion of druids would be a good basis for such a stickied feedback thread, please PM me.

My bad. I thought build forum was more for specifics not general. Noted for the future haha. And yeah I've definitely lurked the moon druid thread. All complaints/tone aside I do feel they're moving in the right direction with the last patch for moon druid. It's just not quite there yet. I'll go add some moon specific feedback to that thread.

Well, control magic is a problem for all casters overall, saves are high and enemies roll twice per round to break every CC , so it only makes sense to be a blaster caster. It seems like only specifically built bards, using special item combos, can CC reliably by getting the spell DC high.

So it’s either a damage caster way, or shapeshifter way. Both are good (didn’t play spore). The class is versatile, rich from RP perspective, has very strong “vibes”.

Wanna know disappointment? Try arcane trickster, Eldritch knight, champion, wild magic sorcerer etc.

I can't disagree on arcane trickster or champion. Although champion was a disappointment in tabletop as well. I actually think eldritch knight and wild magic sorc are fine. Mostly the same as it was in tabletop. What issues do you have with those two?

Have to agree with this.

Spore Druid, however, is one of the better classes in the game.

So I find the druid in BG3 partly better than I could play him in other games with the same rules, etc..
Only that he as a 2nd healer can not hold a candle to the cleric, is stupid.
Here it would have made absolute sense to give him a healer spec, which should then include completely different spells that rather use healing over time and barriers of wood, stone, etc., and possibly even a specialized healer shapeshift which then heals even better.

Otherwise, I agree with you so far that the Specc Circle of the Moon, should have stood out a little more strongly in the figures.
There should also be more Feats for the animal forms and more the selection of items that push the forms.

But you should not underestimate the raven form. I've experienced a massive amount of advantages with it in the game, whether it's in combat or exploring.
When exploring, you can reach many places easily, avoid traps, fly to hidden places, visit places that would otherwise be hard to reach, fly over dangerous terrain, or go flip switches without having to run long detours and without great cost.

In combat, the raven ability Blindness is extremely strong.
With it, you basically knock out bosses permanently and can constantly fly away unhindered without getting opportunity attacks and hide somewhere again and continue this per round until even the fattest monster, even bosses, are flat.
It was almost cheating you can say.

As a shapeshifter Specc, however, I found it stupid that the owl bear is available for all then, it is somehow worse than the Specc shape bear and there are also otherwise except for the healing in the shape, only few advantages.
This should be done better, even just with the Feats.

For the Caster, I would find it even better if the more such unique spells like Moonbeam gets.
Anything that brings out more of the druidic is to be welcomed, to make the class stand out more from the cleric and the mage.

The spore druid thing is a fun change of pace. In the core I would have driven more then also so this mushroom rail. A few more of these distinctions are the spice.

That is also what has always bothered me in the other games.
The druid was always kind of interchangeable, because all the other classes could do all that and the shapeshifting thing was rather bad and awkward and hard to figure out.
You should be able to clearly recognize and be told what works in animal form and what does not, including feats, buffs, etc..
Transparency and good elaboration, such classes then stand much better and be liked more than if you puzzle, what makes sense and what does not and it still does not really know.