Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Suggestions for player vampire spawn immersion

WARNING: This post may spoiler some things regarding one of the two major endings in act 3 with Astarion's quest.

It was suggested to me on tumblr to post this here, I'm sorry if the post is a bit informal- I'm not familiar with using forums.
Feel free to add addition suggestions while discussing! I'm particularly interested what everyone else thought of this.

I'm surprised more people haven't written about it yet. Because I think it's a big mistake that the environment doesn't react to it at all.
Similar to Durge's scene, none of the companions seem to care.
You don't feel integrated into the group/world if extreme changes aren't noticed.
I thought there was a mistake in my save, because I was really expecting comments and changes.
And I think that the player shouldn't be able to change red eyes or pale skin anymore, you should feel the consequences.
I hope for at least a few small recognitions. And of course the fangs.

I personally prefer the appearance to be adjustable, since vampires in lore can be a bit more variable eye color wise..? There's different depictions that aren't simply limited to red eyes and paler skin- and of course, if the character has a darker skin tone by default it could be weird to make it paler unless they already were a light tone to begin with.
That would suggest that for every skin tone in the game, the dev coders would have to set a pale variant to that skin tone- If you select all skin tones during character creation, there's two tones called vampire 1 and vampire 2 if I remember. So giving the option for the player to be able to adjust the appearance themselves would be preferred and not taking that away.

Then there's also characters with heterochromia- would they just lose their two different eye colors entirely? Or would they become two different shades of red? If there's a default vampire eye color for all vampires I just don't see how this would work without upsetting people or having to hardcode a lot of colors just for a little thing here in act 3.

Maybe a suggestion for the character creator to simply have teeth options, since other races may have different teeth and grow extra fangs upon becoming a vampire spawn. (Like half orc of tiefling)

If you choose to become half squid you don't get to keep your pretty face, so choosing to become a vampire spawn should come with some aesthetic consequences too.

Not having fangs really is an unfortunate oversight.

Hello again - it's me. The person that comments on every Astarion thread lol

I agree with most everything stated here. Gimme some fangs for sure.

But in addition, I was hoping that being Astarion's spawn would have some real repercussions other than just people reacting to me now being a bloodsucking monster.

For one, I was hoping to gain insight into the real downsides and get a new perspective on what Astarion had to go through in being a spawn. Sure, we're an Ascendant spawn and we certainly aren't created the same way he was (vampire bride theory makes the most sense) but, there's no explanation into what that means. Like, do we not have bloodlust? Where are the moments where we get real urges to rip someone's throat out?
Astarion had centuries to master his cravings, as stated in Cazador's dungeon when explaining why letting a bunch of new spawn out into the world is dangerous. But we're brand new and there aren't any cravings at all? Why aren't we affected? Why isn't there a long rest scene of you trying to suck someone dry and our master, Astarion, having to pull us back and teach us how to control it? Also, seriously missed opportunity for him to throw it back in our face about how upset we may have been that he tried to kill us in the beginning. Could've been hilarious to hear him on his high horse going "Not so easy, is it?"

Since the "ascendant spawn" isn't defined in any sense, I have to assume that we somehow get literally no downsides and just a new ability. That's really half-baked and half-assed and I was hoping to live out a vampire fantasy of having a chance to peer into the looking-glass of Astarion's misfortunes and have him have to help me through it. It just a major missed opportunity.

Agree with all of your points. The lack of fangs and Tav/DUrge still seeing their mirror image were the most disappointing for me. I'd be totally fine with fangs/red eyes being optional through the mirror, but right now the fangs are not an option at all.

I found romance specific companion banter on youtube where Shadowheart (I think?) comments on Tav's/DUrge's pale complexion and strange look with played confusion and Astarion just snaps that Tav's a vampire. Not sure if this is even in the game though since in all of my playthroughs it never fired off.

Then there is a comment Durge can make to one of the reflections from the past at the murder tribunal about not needing to die because their beloved has the key to immortality.

Overall it's not much though and this just enforces the feeling that everything connected to the romances is their own little storyline detached from the main story.

Tieflings at least have fangs naturally, but if they do update the other models to have fangs, then Tieflings should be upgraded to full devil fangs like Mizora has.

Also, spawn Tav/DUrge should probably have an option to bite Araj for the potion themselves since she’s still trying to get Astarion to bite her in act 3.

They should really give spawn Tav/Durge appropriate spawn teeth if nothing else.

I don't think they will messing with skin tone just considering how many skintones there are in the game, and adjusting a paler version to each of them would take a lot of work. They can always make it so that the paleness just doesn't happen immediately in their lore, and that's why spawn Tav doesn't have it yet. The eye color change could be dealt with by dividing the existing eye colors into three categories -- light, medium and dark -- and then just selecting a red for each category; this way those who want their character to have heterochromia can still keep that aspect, assuming they've chosen colors from different categories. If not... well you did decide to become a vampire spawn so you'll just have to live with the changes.

Also they should remove Tav seeing themselves in the mirror. It's not even a big change. The reason I think Larian might not do this is because that would require them to call the voice actors in for new lines, and I don't know how willing they're to do that for a small immersion thing. It's a shame that they probably won't do that, but since they did give us the ability to become a vampire spawn, they should at least do something with the immersion.

At least give us the teeth, Larian. You get cosmetic change if you eat the forbidden gummy worm, why not for this?

As for the lack of any interaction, rp elements or even basic reactivity from anyone... yeah they should definitely change that. Like the bloodlust (if you're supposed to have that pls Larian clarify if Astarion is blocking that one too along with giving us sun immunity) could very easily be implemented by copying the way it was done when you play as Astarion; when you recruit Shadowheart and Lae'zel you have the dialogue option to just zone out and contemplate how much you'd like to bite them. They then react to your zoning out. This could be a relatively simple way to implement it in camp dialogue or something with Tav. If they really wanted to go in with it, they could make it into a game mechanic where, if you don't bite anyone, be it friends or enemies, and you long rest, you get a debuff similar to the bloodless status that you can cure with the bite. That way you'd also need to play around being a spawn. I do realize this is something we'll likely never get, though, and people might not like it since it would force them to engage with the bite mechanic quite a bit.

Also we need the companions to at least comment on you becoming a spawn with one line or something, even if we can't have a full discussion about it with them. They should have opinions about it; you're supposed to be their friend, and they have opinions on every other companion after something happens with them. Then again they don't care if Durge so maybe it's in character for them to not care about this too.

I still don't find the options suggested in regards to eyes reasonable myself, but that's just my personal taste.
If anyone wants to feel immersed with the eyes specifically, they can just give their character red eyes afterwards if they find that fitting. There's different shades of red too, so.

There's also different types of eyes either way, with different colored sclera's. Would require a lot of coding in connection to colors just for something in act 3.
The whole forbidden gummy worm consumption has a default effect for every character from what I've seen? And if you They do hint at the ''signs of vampirism'' being different for the player through Astarion's dialogue. So it could manifest differently beyond standard expectations of cold skin and newly acquired fangs. (How else are you supposed to bite?)

If anything the fangs are the most important. with some races having slightly different fangs due pre-existing canines. (Tiefling, half orc and such) It would seem more similar to the forbidden gummy worm thing when it comes to putting something on the character model that's the same for every other character with a small few exceptions then.

Yeah, I agree. Fangs seem like the big omission, especially since you do get the vampire run and unarmed animations.

I wouldn’t mind having just a couple of vampire eye options in the eye colors section. Particularly faintly glowing red on white eyes, and perhaps the stupid looking vamp eyes. Otherwise, the current red suffices.

Perhaps when you become a spawn, just before you wake up the game forces you into a limited character creation screen where you can choose the type of fangs and the new skin and eye colour? Everyone should be happy then.
As a side note, I always wondered why Astarion has unique eyes and fangs in comparison to his brethren. Even Cazador has a reddish glow in his eyes.
Also, if Astarion is ascended he should probably get his reflection back, after all he's supposed to benefit from human perks.



That would have been such a cool RP option to have in the game!
But indeed it looks like there are no downsides for Tav, I guess Astarion's blood is OP like that. Tav can probably enjoy all the benefits of being a living vampire as he does (as long they stay near him), just doesn't gain new abilities like summoning creatures, and so on.
As much as I enjoy some angst, I'm actually ok with it, because it makes the ritual route more enticing and both can live a happier life. It's clear Astarion doesn't want Tav to suffer like he did as spawn.

The Ravenloft style vampire bride / groom theory suggests Tav doesn’t actually need Astarion for those benefits, and Astarion is actually just gaslighting them so they still believe they are trapped. In actuality, they might not be under compulsion at all, nor need to stay close to him. In fact, if that theory is correct, the only binding part of their arrangement would be that if either of them harms or kills the other, they both die.

If the cravings came up in a scene though, DUrge should probably have full control over it since they’re use to dealing with the urge.

The eye thing might be from tadpole, I kind of headcanon that he had similar glowing eyes like his brethren before getting tadpoled, I mean it already makes it so that the normal vampire rules don't apply to him, like running water, sunlight, OCD need to count stuff, religious symbols, needing an invition aka normal vampire stuff.

Most people don't know about the Vampire OCD thing, like if you're trapped in a corner with a vampire, you just need to throw some rice grains or coins, they would stop whatever they were doing, even hunting you and start counting the stuff you threw individually like one by one, it even overrides their self preservation instincts, since if you threw a lot, they'll still be counting after sun is done rising, you could potentially trap a vampire on a beach just by throwing sand at them.

The eyes, among other things was likely from the tadpole, or more specifically the netherese magic imbued tadpoles which blocks out Cazador and messes with other magic stuffs. It also messes with Wryll (and Gale ate a netherese orb even before taking a tadpole to the eye which effed his magic-ing up bad turning them into level 1 punching bags). If anyone paid attention after the non-ascension, all the other spawn lost the eye thing after daddy Caz bites the bullet.


Well, intended or not. Ascended Astarion is a corpse in my last run, and looks like Vampire Spawn-Tav didn't need him at all. I broke up with him and took him back to meet the Gur. But yes, Astarion should/would know that as long as the Tadpole exists, he could lose control. Tadpole gone, then TAV is his until he decides otherwise.

I'm really curious how the whole dynamic works and I wish the game explained it better, because at this point we can only guess. The distance thing could be true, it could work the same way telepathy works between a true vampire and their bride. He could also be capable of some blood magic manipulation and use these skills on Tav. There is simply not enough information on what the Ascendant can do.


Once the red glow goes away they all get tiefling looking eyes. So Astarion still has unique eyes. Also, if it was the tadpole their look should change once he's free of the worm, but it doesn't happen.


Oh, he totally knows and viciously lectures Tav about it if they try to break up with him at that point, lol.

If you haven’t seen it yet, I’d suggest reading through this thread. Thus far, the vampire bride theory has been the most effective at tying up some of the cryptic explanations Astarion gives and goes the longest way toward explaining his inconsistent behavior post ascension. I especially like the posters discussion of vampire brides/grooms often not knowing the true state of their situation, so as to give the vampire master an upper hand.

I fully support this post, especially with obtaining fangs as a spawn as well as gaining red eyes if you don't have them already. Vampire red eyes are supposed to be a symbolence of your eyes filling with blood, the very thing you now crave. Becoming a vampire is a magical transformation, so therefore should feel like one. Paler skin would also be a great feature, although each skin tone on the pallette would have to have an undead variant for diversity.

The vampire bride/groom sounds interesting. Although I think it would be neat if you can convince Astarion to turn you into a full vampire if you are is lover.

I'm all for the vampire bride theory, it makes the most sense and lines up with Astarion's actions and comments, after all we only see him use manipulative words but never physically compel Tav. What I'm wondering about however is how many human benefits Tav has from being the ascendant spawn and how it works. Are they permanent? Do they indeed need to stay near Astarion to maintain these abilities (like the telepathy thing), can he manipulate Tav's blood and take these abilities away from them if he wants to, he also mentions extending ritual blessings unto Tav - how powerful can Tav actually become? He gains new abilities every day, when does it stop? I would like to know what the ultimate form of the Ascendant is.

That’s what I’m getting at, I think they have the same ritual benefits Astarion does, I.e. daywalker, can eat normal food, no running water issues, can enter homes, etc.

The only difference is they don’t have full vampire powers, just spawn powers and they can’t make new spawn.

It’s interesting too, cause if you kill Astarion before the end game, you won’t have to run and hide on the dock, and at first I thought that was just an oversight, but it might not be.

Yeah, unless the game states otherwise in future patches, this is my headcanon.


I think the whole ending is an oversight. It's totally unfinished.