Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback The Sacred Flame Issue

Sacred flame is quite underpowered when compared to the other cantrips, that being said it does not need a massive buff to damage or some ridiculous modifier. It simply needs one of three changes to improve consistency:

1.) Change the saving throw from DEX to INT, WIS, or CHA. As these skills tend to be lower in npc opponents and would improve the odds of dealing damage.

2.) Add the spell modifier that enemies take half damage when succeeding a saving throw. This way the spell would always deal some minuscule damage but would still reliably proc radiant damage modifiers improving build consistency.

3.) Last but not least (and my personal favourite) simply make it an attack cantrip so it rolls against AC and not abilities. This solution I think makes the most sense when compared to other cantrips that deal damage.

Sacred Flame needs a consistency buff, it does not need the power of something like eldritch blast but it does need to be a reliable way to deal some damage. As of now it does the same damage as ray of frost, shocking grasp, and bone chill, all of which have additional bonuses and make attack rolls. It deals less damage than poison spray and fire bolt while being far less likely to deal damage.

SF does have its upsides as well, rare radiant damage, distance, and the ability to hit enemies in more awkward positions than some of the others. However, with how rarely the spell actually deals damage it is simply never the right choice. All the reasons are why SF needs a simple fix to make it a bit more consistent and none of the suggested changes would make it over powered or even the best option most of the time, in my opinion. They would simply allow the spell to be utilised. Any thoughts and suggestions appreciated. If anyone at Larian sees this, thank you for an amazing game and please give this cool, very niche spell, a bit of attention.

Is Sacred Flame too Inconsistent multiple choice, up to 1 choices
	Too Inconsistent
	Too Strong
	Just Right
Votes accepted starting: 12/11/23 03:34 PM
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I wish they'd make it more consistent, but I don't think they will since they're following DnD rules. Sacred Flame is pretty much a love & hate cantrip for me

Love it because it's fun and looks cool and feels satisfying when it actually hits, but hate it because it lands once every full moon for a laughably pitiful damage.

Even when giving Shadowheart 20 Wisdom along with The Shadespell Circlet and Melf's First Staff which gives her more accuracy for Sacred Flame, it's only good for squishy NPCs with terrible DEX.

The only way I somewhat compensate for its terrible inconsistency is by using Karlach with a Sussur Greatsword and Boots of Stormy Clamour. The sword triggers Silence, from which the boots then Reverberate the target to drop DEX by -2/-4, which lowers it somewhat enough for Sacred Flame to have between 75-85% chance to succeed.

No, the only appropriate other save for it to target might be Wisdom, and we already have ample spells that target that save already. There are also fewer ways to negate or disadvantage wisdom saves, as opposed to dex saves which have a variety of ways they can be forced to disadvantage or even negated entirely.


No, it's a cantrip. Cantrips are non-resource spends, and they are universally all-or-nothing, that's how they work, with the exception of one or two very specific class features in the mid to high levels.


No for gods-sakes no. MOST of our cantrips are attack-roll based, and we have a glut of them already.

Sacred flame is mostly fine as it is. What it needs is something to replace the rider effect that has been removed due to not being implemented in game. They could very easily make it target "a creature you are aware of within range", and thus remove the need for line of sight to target as a way of partially re-creating its cover-ignoring rider in a game where cover does not exist.

As mentioned before, one effect of it targeting dex saves, especially in Larian's game is that there are many ways that you can make damage from sacred flame Completely Guaranteed. If a target is knocked prone, in BG3, they are also treated as unconscious, which means they automatically fail dex saves. A prone target also gives disadvantage to ranged attacks, so all of your attack roll cantrips suffer disadvantage if you wish to attack that prone target, while sacred flame becomes a guaranteed damage spell in the same circumstance.

Use it properly, and you'll have no trouble.

I fully expected them to dive a bit deeper on cantrips, since in the last time there was a Baldur's Gate game cantrips didn't even exist as a distinct concept in Dungeons & Dragons. The game doesn't really tutorialize spellcasting in a meaningful way though. Like I'm struggling to recall if the game ever even explains what the differences are between a Cantrip and a levelled Spell.

Compared to other damage dealing cantrips, Sacred Flame is less intuitive. If you understand the system, then it's possible to parse out it's situational uses, but many will not get that far under the hood. They'll probably assume it's just a radiant version of fire bolt or something like that, and then be puzzled about why it's less reliable and uses a different targeting scheme.

I think there's another issue in that Cleric was the default class for almost the entirety of EA (the first option displayed), and Shadowheart was the first character we encountered after hitting the beach. Trying to teach the player how to use a spellcasting class or a support role is trickier than Fighter, but I think it needs the same approach, because the Priest archetype is sort of the intro to spellcasting after you've got your head around Melee and whatnot.

I think an easy solution to help flatten the learning curve there would be via itemization. For example, an item that improves Sacred Flame rather than changing how the default cantrip works. Doing it that way you can avoid unintended knock on effects while still achieving the simple goal. This is very similar to the Ring of Holiness in BG1, which was an early get and clearly added with Clerics in mind to make them more compelling in a BG context. I thought the Ring of Holiness was an example of a solid use item that didn't upend the rest of the framework. A negative example would be something Edwin's Amulet, which was absurdly OP and made playing any other Wizard pretty lackluster cause they just couldn't compete.

In other words, if they added a buff to Sacred Flame for Shadowheart's Circlet, then at least let the player steal that circlet so it can be used on anybody. Basically the same way Mulahey's ring could be used by any priest character in BG1. The other advantage of doing it via itemization is that then you can set up a situation where the item phases out eventually, eclipsed by a better fit. But you could still have an early boon so the Sacred Flame can have it's time to shine, but perhaps where the item is less useful later on (not the case with the Ring of Holiness in BG1, which remained equipped at all times once you found it, after completing the first major Dungeon lol.) But that's another possible approach.

ps. I honestly thought that the reason why they were pursuing Origins as an idea, was to then use those characters to teach the basic class mechanics of D&D. I legit thought there would be 12 Origins and that each would have an optional prologue that instructed players on how to play the game - as their associated class archetype. I think they could still do something like that actually, even at this late stage.

Lae'zel teaching us how to Melee with precision. Karlach doing the rage-y version of the same, more off the cuff. Astarion showing us how to bust locks and be sneaky. Wyll explaining how to blast and pact proper. Gale giving us a long winded description of Mage Magic in over-exacting detail. Shadowheart to take us there (just like a prayer!) etc. Basically all the mains doing their bit on that one. I think they could do this in-world and in-narrative, and it would add a ton of flavor to the game, while still allowing the new player to get their crash course and a primer in the basics. The systems in D&D remain notoriously complex and that's still a barrier to entry, though not perhaps what it once was. Rather than changing the rules though, I think they should just teach us the rules and how to play in a way that's really engaging.

The game already does this, but it's free form and autodidactic, whereas I think what they need is more of a guided approach. A little guidance and a hand up to help the player find their footing, more or less. Anyhow, just a ramble ramble. I voted for number 1 cause that was my experience. Basically if escaping the Nautiloid teaches us anything it's that Guiding Bolt kicks ass and Sacred Flame is pretty meh, but if Shadowheart let out a little bark to tell us when the right time was to use it, then the player could pick up on those cues and learn all the ins and outs for that one. I like a Circlet for a boon, cause at least that can be hidden. Otherwise I'd say a cape maybe. Or if they gave us belts, then they could have new slot that doesn't need to compete with the existing items, which would be fun. But I think that idea of using Origin companions as teacher trainers has promise, since we're all very familiar with them by now, and a lot could be handled via dialog that way rather than just an encyclopedia or a in-game sourcebook/wiki, which I'd also like to see as well hehe.

I voted for to inconsistent but, Niara is right, the spell is fine.

Sacred Flame Line of sight on casting the spell seems less so when targeting a enemy. Did some simple tests with Shadowheart and Ghale right behind her at the grove behind some rocks targeting cow. Fire Bolt and Ray of Frost requires you to move over to the fence for line of sight. While Sacred Flame works like Faerie Fire and you only have to back up a bit from the rocks. This is the advantage vs other cantrips you gain for using the spell.

On damage wise, I originally threw this spell off my bar till i could respec shadowheart, as it seems weaker than just using a mace or bow (which I just used a bow for her most of the time) since its a flat die roll. Further looking into the spell you gain a +1d8 to the spell for clerics on 5 and 10 level and if you are a light cleric you later on you can apply your ability modifier to the spell.