As someone who beat Tactician 3 times and found the challenge lacking, I'd like to say I'm loving how hardcore Honour Mode is. It's even more intense than the D:OS2 version (it literally just doesn't let you reload, at all, and saves when you quit to the main menu) and it really changes how I play the game and make strategic considerations.
There appear to be hundreds of changes, everything from enemy AI, action economy, loot rarity and merchant pricing.
On my Tactician runs I found the AI to be...let's be kind and say hit or miss. Definitely dumber than D:OS2, which was disappointing.
I don't know what they did for Honour Mode but the AI seems amped up considerably.
I nearly got TPKed in the Overgrown Ruins almost immediately because
I was being an overconfident idiot and placed a purple exploding barrel from the Nautiloid in the chokepoint door to the next room after killing the guy you trick to let you in. Planned to lure them all in there and explode it and I thought I placed my party far enough away. Sneak mode, Gale pulls lever and edges just close enough to the door to shoot a Firebolt through the door past the barrel to ignite the oil barrel they are all standing around in the next room to surprise them to start the fight. That works but they somehow are not surprised and we roll trash initiative so they go first. They immediately shoot a firebolt or flaming arrow (honestly can't remember which 'cause I was shook) at the purple exploding barrel in the doorway. Instant near TPK, Gale and Shadowheart down, Tav and Lae'zel at like 4 HP each. I chugged a couple speed potions, regrouped and managed to grind out the fight but damn, that was a wake up call and a humbling experience and I love it.
Early Tips:
1. Go slow 2. Don't be an overconfident jackass like me, I don't care how many times you've soloed Tactician. This is a whole different thing. 3. See #2 4. See #3
I just want to say kudos to Larian. I was pretty frustrated after Patch 4 but Patch 5 has been amazing so far.
I noticed an exploit in one battle where Lae'zel was getting concentrated attacks. I cast Sanctuary and the boss waited out their turn instead of switching targets. I'll keep an eye out to see if this repeats.
I'm playing honour mode conservatively, prioritizing defences and retreat options. The game is kind of playing out kind of normally so far. Yes, the bosses are tougher, but their new tricks are manageable, if you can prepare.
I misclicked in the spider cave, I wanted to get to a safe distance, rest and come back. Nope. Got two characters webbed, and was detected by the Phase Spider Queen. I had to fight my arse off to get out alive. To be fair, I didn't notice anything special about this fight, but jsut the fact that you can;t reload when this happens makes it really exciting. I tend not to save scum anyway, except for instances like this. Nope. You clicked, you fight. I also never really used scrolls and grenades. I use scrolls now. And grenades. I even buy magic arrows. That's a first.
I suspect Act 2 will be a lot tougher with all the shadow stuff ambushing you left and right. Moonrise Towers has the potential to go really wrong, really fast, too. I'm making sure I've done *everything* before going there.
Tactician is too easy and I would like more challenge. But I don't want it in a way that encourages using broken builds, Illithid powers, silly exploits or other Larianisms. Ironman modes are also a bit too accident-prone to my liking. I don't mind having to replay the same fight a few times and trying different tactics if it's really tough.
I'd prefer a tabletop mode that limits the PC's power levels and abilities to what they should be in 5e and doesn't let you Long Rest whenever.
I didn't think I could keep pace with the level of masochism required to run a single save, but it's not as insane as I thought it might be. I got frustrated after my 3rd TPK, so adopted the method of having one person do the rear guard action, in case we need to split hehe.
Basically if you got 600 gp you can rez the fallen party, so in that sort of calculus it's likely better to hold someone in reserve just in case things go sideways or off the deep end into dice chaos, even if it's mechanically much stronger to roll 4 deep at all times. This changes the base play by a fair bit, depending on what you want to see. Playing solo would probably be more intense, but then also you have more stealth and snipe options that way and without the need to really keep anyone else alive or a reason to avoid the speed and warp zones, which is a bit different I'd guess. I think the honor mode probably favors some class or character combos along different routes.
*Spoilers Strat/Screens
There are some battles where you can't count on fleet feet and Withers though, like where you'll get pulled into initiative, or basically anytime portals and area transitions are involved or cutscenes that lead straight into a fight. This is like very very meta since it requires the player to know which fights cannot be fled so they can prepare hehe.
In my current run I just lost Halsin at the battle to guard the portal. I had remembered earlier, thinking that this is probably what all those barrels I hawked from the Selunites should have been used for, but instead I just ran after him caught up in the moment. We had 2 walls of fire up and a Cloud of Daggers for the birds, Karlach and Minthara both Twin Hasted. Astarion sniping at advantage, Durge popped off a pair of lightning bolts as well, to kill like half a dozen shadows at a go, and still - they shattered the thing into a thousand pieces with crossbow bolts from the backfield in the final round. Alas, I'm not sure we could have done Halsin much better, I mean short of some high yield explosives strategically planted at the spawn points, but I wasn't thinking too deeply on it. My plan all along was to have Minthara shatter it if we came in danger of TPK, which would just be a lesson in mercy for Durge hehe. I didn't let it get me down, after surviving the Creche by the skin of my teeth, I figure the wheel of fortune had to spin the other direction at some point. I was sad to see him go, but it couldn't be helped lol.
In general playing cautious where I can does end up being more expensive, but it still feels pretty decent on the first out. Like it definitely puts a bit of a gold sink there with the rez stuff, though I'm still hording enchanted equipment so that's part of the pocket book plan in a pinch. The zombies also come with a scroll like all the recruitable companions, so you get a two-for one on the first time you bring someone into the fold, since they're cheaper there than from Arron. In my current run Arron is poised to lead a mercantile empire of his own, like he went from bits and bobs to straight walmart, cause the Matriarch burned me hard early on, and he ended up with pretty much all the plates and spoons. Sampling most the cheese like costco paper cups where we can hehe.
Using zombie scouts seems like a decent method too. I've grown kind of attached to Sina'zith now, as my go-to shadow monk scout. I still think it would be more fun to resurrect the recently departed for this, basically with the Beetlejuice vibe on that. I like pretty much all the bit players, so I could easily see that working well. I also dig the idea of creating some sort of Zombie, Construct, or just recruiting a regular sort of Hireling from an Inn, but where we have more control over the visualization. I'd prefer stuff like that as opposed to having modular visualizations for every character, which is how it's sometimes handled elsewhere, like with standard outfit/haircut number 2 or 3 or whatever. I think they could do that here and still preserve the visuals and core characterizations for the mains, but open things up more for the hirelings. I think if they wanted to make death more hardcore they could bring back the hit to CON for that, or scale the cost by lvl, the go for the oldschool death by chunk, but that might a bit much for me here. Especially the further along you get, after hours and hours. Like if I'm trying to actually play most of the encounters out instead of skipping over them, but yeah, I thought I could get the Zaithisk over with early on for Bae'zel, but damn, we almost all took a dirt nap on that one! Having an extra invisibility scroll was ultra S in the clutch there!
Not sure what sort of staying power it will have for me, but for a Saturnalia surprise I'll definitely take it!
Tactician is too easy and I would like more challenge. But I don't want it in a way that encourages using broken builds, Illithid powers, silly exploits or other Larianisms. Ironman modes are also a bit too accident-prone to my liking. I don't mind having to replay the same fight a few times and trying different tactics if it's really tough.
I'd prefer a tabletop mode that limits the PC's power levels and abilities to what they should be in 5e and doesn't let you Long Rest whenever.
That's died-and-continued-from-honor-mode for you then. That's what I'm doing now and it's *seriously* fun. Astarion eats all the tadpoles in my game, no one else. I changed the resting-cost to triple, so 120 supply cost. Still very manageable, but you don't rest every other fight now.
The Legendary boss fights are waaaay cooler, and the action economy is a lot more fair. Speed pots now give you an exta attack, but not a full action. The single save options cuts out reloading, you *have* to die, or you can't reload.
Man, I went to Moonrise, did the dialogue with Ketheric, dealt with the gobbos and went upstairs to report. There were a few dialogue options here, and I naturally picked the one that aligned with my class - which is Barbarian. Passed the check with flying colors...... But they saw right through that.
'WHO ARE YOU1?" - she replied, and the whole castle went hostile. Not on the first turn, but there's these eyeballs everywhere that call for reinforcements.
So, stuck on the upper level with my party at level 7, I had to fight all of the moonrise forces from a tiny room. No harpers, no preparation, no end-of-the-act level and no surpise round either. I put up a fight and must have murdered twenty or so enemies before it was just Astarion left who doesn't really run out of resources. He cheesed the hells out of that fight, survived on his own for a fair number of rounds... but there's only so much a single fighter/rogue can do. Ordinairly, I wouldn't even *try* that fight and jsut savescum out of there. But now I at least try to play to the best of my ability and deal with whatever happens - even if I don't like the outcome. That was an hour of thrilling combat, there was even a point where I thought to myself that if I kept it up, I could maybe get away with this.
Yeah I am finding the same. It just makes me way more inclined to try my best with whatever cracks off hehe.
This was my absolute favorite moment since I started playing this game...
Act II spoilers*
Shadowheart's most legendary recovery!
I botched it big time in our hour of most desperate need, and then it was entirely up to Shadowheart to save all our asses!
She came absolutely clutch when the rest of us died almost instantly. Then she escaped to the cuts with sanctuary, a potion of flight, and my very last wall of fire scroll. It was so glorious! From complete despair and panic to the total heights. She's the most chosen now! For sure! haha
After that death-defying triumph we were riding high, but we immediately lost Halsin while defending the portal. Oh shit!!!
Then things went from bad to heartbreaking, when Jaheira fell gloriously in battle while storming Moonrise.
She went down to the black hole along with all the Harpers, killed by Z'rell, but not before giving us enough of an edge to escape a complete TPK.
Our first attempt vs Ketheric was near disaster too, when I accidentally cast Ice Storm right above my head with a targeting misclick on the one of the rafters and almost got us all killed again as my opening salvo.
Aylin got dropped immediately to what seemed like a 100 necromites.
For that one Lae'zel proved her mettle as the last warrior standing, feather falling with magic pockets, down from the roof like 5 stories to escape.
This burned me down to only 500 GP for the entire party and all the camp supply merchants were dead, except the twisted Sister at the house of healing. Good grief!
We regrouped at the Last Light, to break the news to Isobel. Minthara wasn't sure what to make of it - the wounds all seemed so grievous!
Alfira and Lakrissa are still alive though, so we got that silver lining at least...
I swore an oath to avenge Jaheira, and found a new circle in her honor, by the light of the Moon.
We recruited another Wither's zombie and spec'd her from fighter into to spore druid to try to capture the spirit, even if the look there is more BG1 Jaheira and she can't really remember much. For some reason she goes by Sunblossom now, but it was enough to at least keep the idea of a druid's circle alive.
Even though I know we can't lift the shadow curse anymore, maybe the mushrooms can still heal the land somehow even if shrouded in darkness? Who knows right. But we needed a druid, and Shadowheart is considering taking up the mantle there. Meantime Danton and Varanna were casting goodberry with every spellslot, since that was the only way I was able to long rest lol.
Minthara captured the whole vibe for me, with her running commentary... foreshadow much? hehe
We are at the Oubliette now! Finally!!!
Anyhow, it was great! In another mode I'd probably have just reloaded, but this was way more entertaining!
How did the game manage to instantly kill 3 of your party members?! (Judging by the screenshots, they were not just downed, but had been killed.)
To put in a different way (no offense), what did you do or not do such that 3 of your party members got killed like that? It was not like running into an unexpected ambush. If Shadowheart could single-handedly eliminate all the threats, why would 3 party members have to be dead? They could have just waited for Shadowheart to get her "job" done.
to take Balthazar on at lvl 7 using Polymorph Fear and Silence, to try and just smoke him with a quickness, but I failed all of those spells, then we tried to just beat him down with Lae'zel and the whack whack lol. I thought I was doomed, cause he got off the cloud kill, and Shadowheart was standing right next to Aylin when that cracked off.
I didn't even know the overhang thing would work, I just cast sanctuary and ran lol. Got back up to the higher level using flight, then kept hiding and sniping and eventually got em all. Next time I'd probably just keep her up top. I had no idea I could blast from such a height, first time trying it.
There is a much simpler method if you want to avoid the fight altogether, but that involves a different set of spells and some sneak moves, and anyhow I was spoiling for a fight just to try it out when the stakes were high hehe.
We got dropped shortly thereafter, in the fight with the Bone Lord. I'm not sure how I'll handle that next time! Things pretty intense. I've seen a way to zap him from a distance, but I went for broke lol.
There was no escape for Shadowheart on that one, though we did make it the door, but then gah!!!! hehehe
We tried this first just to see, I was trying to light up the shadows, but it only gets a credit roll.
Still fun though, my party comp suffered from the choice to sub him in at the last minute after having left him at camp the entire time.
Lot's of spectacular panics! Dirt Nappers in the end though, that time out hehe