Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Lae'zel and the Zaith'isk

So the Zaith'isk gives her a rather significant permanent debuff of -2 Con, -2 Int and -2 Wis.

Why is this a problem?

The player has been taught since the beginning that death is meaningless. Characters can repeatedly die or be "lost forever" in chasms but they can always be brought back in full strength with a simple Revivify scroll or by Withers for petty cash. When the zaith'isk cutscene was playing I was literally thinking "it doesn't matter if she dies, I have 10 Revivify scrolls in my pack". The complete disconnect between gameplay mechanics and narrative is something that pops up in BG3 often. Characters can be Disintegrated without any permanent debuffs, but somehow this time it matters because there's a cutscene where someone gets a little bit hurt?

Narratively, you have to let it go far because otherwise she, still a zealot, would just be mad you interrupted the process and messed it up. And what do you know of Githyanki machines anyway? Lae'zel always approves when you let her deal with Githyanki stuff independently. And she needs to learn the hard way for her eyes to open. Unfortunately, this mechanically gimps her value as a party member. So the player is being punished for letting her story arc play out in a logical way. It mechanically encourages you to dump her for Karlach who hasn't been nerfed. What doesn't kill you makes you weaker, eh?

Finally, the game fails to notify you that her abilities got permanently weakened. There should have been pop-up windows after the cutscene saying -2 Con! -2 Wis! -2 Int! Or at the very least some visible condition where conditions normally are. This major ability score reduction was done very much in secret and it sucks to find out about it much later. Personally, I only noticed after hours of playing and finishing the entire Creche, which is extremely annoying.

Hey so, do you have a cleric or other character who can cast the spell �remove curse�? You could try casting that on Lae�zel to try to remove the permanent debuffs. I�m not sure if it�ll work (it�s been known to remove other so-called permanent debuffs), but it�s worth a shot!

I do think the game has an annoying fascination of punishing the player for trying to remove the tadpoles. Also see Ethel ... not so much Volo, but there are simpler ways to get See Invisibility.

On the other hand, I don't see any of those debuffs mattering much in a playthrough, and I like to see Lae'zel punished for being an absolute idiot throughout much of that quest. "I am becoming pure!" indeed.

There's no real way to win with the Zaith'isk. Succeed DC 30 skill checks or Lae'zel will suck for the rest of the game. It's better to metagame it = just ignore it or save scum it.

Really odd design choice there to encourage the player to ignore the storyline by punishing them like that. Also, where is the option to just pull her out of the device after you know it's killing her? Why do you only get options to persuade or deceive her to get off? The whole scene feels off.

I just can't get over that the characters have been utterly incinerated in lava and had their bodies crushed to goo by falling into bottomless pits, but somehow only the Zaith'isk hurts so much it gives them a permanent debuff.

Honestly, the Zaith'isk is really annoyingly implemented.

If you let Lae'zel go into it because you're not a jerk, you miss out on the powerful bonus of making all your Illithid powers take a bonus action instead of a standard action. Whilst having the potential to harm her because apparently the Dream Visitor doesn't care about Lae'zel as much as you (Even though they apparently appear to everyone in your camp, since they all reference them appearing in their dreams)

If you don't let Lae'zel go into it, you miss out on the information you can acquire about it from succeeding some skill checks. Information that without which makes certain dialogue options make no sense (When persuading Lae'zel in front of the Inquisitor and later when confirming that Voss is correct about the Zaith'isk)

It just feels like a complete mess of a scene where you are seemingly punished with any option you pick.

"Suck" is a bit strong. Her most important attribute is unchanged, and the rest will very rarely come up. Try using her and see how often she actually fails a save by one or drops because of that exact lack of hitpoints. It might never happen.

Also, D&D games in general are wildly inconsistent when it comes to combat healing and story healing, and they have to be if they want to tell a "traditional" fantasy story while keeping all that magic healing around.

The dice roll to persuade her to jump out of the Zaith�isk is significantly lower if you have a high level of approval with her. And even lower if you romance her. So it�s actually not too difficult to pass those if the right conditions are in place.

It doesn't really matter what the skill checks are or if she sucks only a little bit or a lot compared to Karlach.

The point is that the permanent 6 point stat debuff does not serve any purpose except being an illogical nuisance for the rest of the game. One that encourages you to remove Lae'zel from the party when you just got deeply involved in her redemption story. It's entirely backwards.

Skill checks aside, the game doesn't let you remove her from the machine. You wouldn't need a skill check for that. The whole scene and the outcomes are badly designed. It's idiotic the rest of the party are just standing there trying to find clever ways to convince her to get off the machine when she clearly doesn't know what's good for her, and they could simply remove her at any time to save her.

I�m on my fourth run and never manage to consistently pass those skill checks, I now just reload the game after a few tries.

Those 6 points of debuffs are extra annoying if you want to reclass her later on. I also don�t feel like there is a lot of story coming out of this either.

So I save scummed this stupidity for a good 20 minutes, after replaying the entire Creche. Couldn't get a nat20 on an impossible DC 30 check and then let it play out as it's supposed to.

Tav is smart enough not to trust the Gith or their devices. He let Lae'zel go in first to test it out, and turn into a vegetable because the party somehow didn't get a chance to remove her even when they discovered the truth about the Zaith'isk.

She's now weakened and retired permanently and Karlach took her place as the party warrior. Shame, because her story was just getting a major turn, her approval was "very high" and she was a valued member of the party. I think Larian messed this one up.

Full agreement. What I mind about this debuffing is exactly the afromentioned disconnect with the rest of the game.

I don't think the other companions ever get actively involved in any situation outside their personal quests, which i find kinda meh. That the player also doesn't have an option to just grab her is stupid. Guess it would be too easy if that option was there,