Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Problems with Halsin's character, advances, LI and general character interactions, etc.

It's a shame that Larian still hasn't bothered to remove or at least modify anything about all that infamous garbage with Shadowheart and Halsin. They're not even capable of removing the flirt dialogue from what I've read. I mean, we're not even asking for it to be removed, just to put it in a poly romance with those two, but they don't even want to do that. From what I see, they made a change with Gale due to a single post I saw on Larian's Discord where someone complained that the game didn't allow you to be kind and understanding to him for not wanting to participate in the interaction with the drow twins, and immediately Larian solved the problem. Why don't they do the same with SH if people have been asking for it for a while? Could it be because their writer doesn't want to? I honestly believe that's the case. Apparently, they intend to change Astarion's reaction when you cheat on him with Mizora. I think they should at least do the same with Shadowheart since her current reaction doesn't fit either route, and Shadowheart and Astarion are two equivalent characters, so to speak. It seems Larian is going to implement the ultimatum dialogue; I would prefer them to solve the problem at its root instead of avoiding it, but well, at least we have a canonical way to get rid of Halsin xD.

Just keep giving them feedback, especially after Gale/Astarion changes. It's logical to have Selune and Shar Shadowheart split too.

I'm going to send feedback one of these days, I know it will be ignored but hey, we don't lose anything by trying, (just time xD).

There were some feedback threads on this on Larian's disc(among countless AA kisses threads) and highly upvoted topic on reddit so. LEast we can do is send feedback and hope that Larian care about their players.

I agree with you, it feels so weird if the Tav is in a relationship with someone who openly flirts with another party member, same as if said party member tries to flirt with Tav's LI. Like they don't give a damn f what the Tav thinks?
Put all of that in a poly relationship, give the player the chance to have any polycule they want and then it's fine, but not in a mono relationship. If they really care about diversity, they should add any combination of polycules and not just Halsin + Astarion/SH.

I feel like Larian wants to keep the flirty stuff between the characters because there are still too many peeps on Twitter who are shipping different combinations of origin characters. That being said, those are the same people who are all in for adding Halsin to the Astarion relationship while the latter feels really uncomfortable with it and even shows how bad he's hurt if you read between the lines.

Funny, but Shadowheart is usually shipped with Karlach or Laezel. Halsin is like the last one character that ppl ship with her lul. And it's "V" relationship anyways lmao.

But anyway hopefully they eventually fix it(thay haven't even fix her hair bug). My christmas wish is that selune SH becomes uncomfortable with Tav wanting to sleep with Halsin(Shar SH stays the same), but will see.

I always feel bad if I got nice things and others are still unhappy. I hope the thing with Shart gets better too.

That being said, in hindsight, I mostly feel trolled by the promo kisses. ^^ Poor Gale got that extremely uncomfortable AA kiss promo, but on the other hand got a very nice patch overall - and some very sweet content with Spawn Astarion. So I am ok with being trolled.

Thank you, I'm glad Gale got some updates(I think scene itslef needs more work though).

Shart teaser showed her DJ kiss though, so a lil bit of trolling.

I would guess it's likely low priority if it is even going to receive any changes.
I think the Shadowheart/Halsin/Sharess' Caress interactions are best left unexplored (I never use Halsin outside of the shadow curse quest in act 2). Sharess' Caress in particular seems as if it was done in the spirit of bawdy comedy - or fun, I guess.
Already talked to death on these forums and elsewhere, but the whole Shadowheart & Halsin thing really comes out of left field and isn't consistent at all with SH's character (Selunite or Sharran) if what we've seen and been told in the hours of game up until this point is any indication.
And Halsin's advances are just inappropriate. It would be a different matter entirely if Tav & Shadowheart invited him, had engaged in the polyamorous relationship prior, or if it extended to other party members for that matter, instead it's only him, and invites himself. Seems a bit ick.
The relationships in the game are for the most part done with care and sensitivity but this tiny section can, has and will continue to rub people the wrong way.

The Sharess' Caress stuff makes me very uncomfortable. I posted about it on the "Justice for Gale" thread, but I'm specifically focusing on Halsin’s characterization here. I was really happy to see there were changes to Gale's scene in the patch notes, but I personally thought the continuation of the scene (if Halsin is in the party) was the most overtly problematic part, and that part hasn't changed.

Halsin inviting himself, especially if the player has already rejected his advances, can make people uncomfortable. I understand that they want to give players the choice here, but I believe Halsin had already expressed interest in the twins, so the player could just invite him without another prompt.

Gale "agrees" to Halsin participating with the line, "Well I suppose it would do no good to back out now. Let us begin this little anthropological study, if we must." The first part makes it sound like he feels he can't back out. Calling it an “anthropological study” makes it sound like he’s trying to emotionally distance himself, and the "if we must" is makes it clear that it isn’t something he wants. If that was supposed to portray enthusiastic consent, then it failed massively. Every part of that sentence expresses discomfort. If it was supposed to show Gale felt coerced, then we move onto the problem with the framing.

Halsin is pretty consistently portrayed as good aligned. He can end the game caring for orphans, and that's framed as wholesome. If the player agrees to romance him when they already have a partner, he explicitly says he needs the other partner's consent. A good person, who cares about enthusiastic consent, should not participate in a sexual situation with someone who is so clearly uncomfortable and unenthusiastic, but Halsin doesn't bat an eye at Gale's response. He's not concerned about Gale when Gale flees the situation, and just complains that the projection Gale leaves behind is "no equal to nature's true creation." Larian wouldn’t deliberately write Halsin as a sexual predator here and portray him as a good person for the rest of the game. That makes it seem like the writers didn’t see anything wrong with Halsin’s behaviour (or the player’s, for that matter). The inclusion of the projection (which is usually played for humour) makes it seem like it’s intended to be seen as funny. The scene accidentally plays sexual coercion as a joke.

I don’t have a problem with the game depicting evil acts, or giving the player evil options. There sexual coercion scene in act 2, , and it is powerful. People praise it. The difference is, it’s framed as a violation, and there are consequences.

It’s strange to me that a companion that explicitly talks about the necessity of consent clearly doesn’t care about enthusiastic consent in this scene. I WANT Halsin to be a good example of someone who values enthusiastic consent. I enjoy him when he’s doing druid stuff. His introduction was funny. He has some interesting party banter. I hope Larian can iron out the things that are making people uncomfortable.

Halsin also doesn't care about the Tav's consent when he asks Astarion to join their sex next time without asking the Tav if that's even an option for them. It's kind of the same when he has the swimming banter with SH, the Tav is never been asked.
I get that party banter is only between two party members without the Tav being involved, but if they flirt it's not something I want to ignore (if one of them is a relationship with the Tav, that is).

If Larian added all of this without noticing the contradictions, then they could rework it after all the feedback, but if they did it on purpose, then I question their morals and/or their capability of writing consistently.

They could, they simply don't want to and it's been proved, because they didn't it so many months after the premiere. Honestly, all that shit with Halsin just made me kill him on my every playthrough now. This is the first companion/NPC in my 20 years of gaming that made me completely uncomfortable. That says a lot.

My hope is dwindling, but there is still a tiny bit left, especially after patch 6, as they at least changed some stuff from the characters. They won't change big chunks of it, but I feel like tiny changes could go a long way.

The biggest flaw with Halsin, is that in ACT 3, he was written specifically to be just for sex. Larian wrote him as a sex toy for Tav, and tried to hide it behind a romantic lense. I don't want to sound prudish, I'm not anti sex in videogames. But the way they did it with Halsin feels so incredibly contradictory to his character in Acts 1 and 2, perhaps minus the dialogue at the tiefling party. Asking Halsin to have a drink with you at least opens the door a little for a romance. Which honestly baffles me, because theres is WAY too much time that goes by in the game between that and when you actually get to romance him. I dont know why the game treats wanting to have a drink and talk to him to us throwing ourselves at the man, since you can apoligize the next morning. But I write it off as a misunderstanding in my headcanon. There really needs to be at least one dialogue/cutscene before the shadow lands that establishes he has some sort of interest

Idk if they fixed it, probably not, but if you solomance him he will not aknowledge the relationship, and this is honestly my biggest gripe. His whole shpiel about a garden is fine, if youre doing a polyship. But it is so incredibly hurtful when you are solomancing him. Especialy since I dont think you actually get his "I dont do monogamy" bit until AFTER sex, (someone will need to confrim this for me, Im not that far yet) and he himself chooses not to see other people.

I will keep saying this until Larian gets it. Halsin is not my side chick, he is not my sex toy. He is my BELOVED.

That's like 110% my opinion, the whole "romance" is just build upon him being more like a side chick to Astarion/SH is so unfulfilling. I feel like this has been written months ago but still nothing has changed and the feedback nowadays is more focused on the ultimatum, his EA character and his creepy advances. It even wonders me that Larian added the option to stick with Halsin only at the end (and in the epilogue).

So, thank you, thank you, thank you for writing what is exactly what I hate the most about his writing.

As I said, my hope is dwindling, but I still hope for a better romance in the future. And as you said, he treats your feelings wrong by never fully commiting to the relationship between him and Tav.

Of course there are others who claim Halsin can't learn to live his romance on a different level as he is already 350 yo (which is sad for me personally, because imagine you are not allowed to change yourself when you get older. That's nothing you don't see in real life, people can and will change even in later years), but looking at it from a different angle, it would be so sweet and wholesome for him to see what it's like to be in a real, monogamous relationship with him being the center of someones life and vice versa.
One could even add a romance quest line and have that as it's storyline, like at first he is all about open relationship and then he learns that his views might have changed because of Tav.

This! I really hope they add a main romance path option for him instead of only having a path where he’s a side romance!!! Hopefully in the definitive edition!

I dont even think they need to do that, but Im open to it. I think it just needs to be flagged behind a Tav initiated polyship is all. Ive said before I dont mind him being open to having other lovers if thats what Tav wants to do.

But they really dont NEED to change much about his romance, just polish it up and fill in the gaps in between him joining camp and doing his portal quest. The lack of content may even work in its favor, because you can capitalize on the idea that there ARE feels being had, but theyre being held back because of fear/not wanting to be distracted from the mission.

Wait, is that banter actually in the game? I thought it was only in the datamined files.

And then, to add insult to injury, he has the audacity to get all upset if you go back and forth on him

"i wanna break up"
H: "oh really? :C"
"nvm jk ilu bb"
H: "oh good, dont joke like that its mean"
"nah I wanna break up"
H: "Aw really? :c"
"jk lol"
H: Halsin Disapproves

Halsin's stanning from within Larian, and how his romance is treated, revolves entirely around him being a white male character whom the writers believe women should fawn over. They even make light of rape in one dialogue line from Halsin, because of their immature attitudes regarding him and sex.

So he's going to keep on getting fawned over, because he's a self-insert for numerous writers within Larian.