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So I didn't see any threads about this, but I'm also new to the forums so I apologize if I didn't search correctly. I'll put my stuff in spoiler tags just since I'm talking about Act 3 stuff in case people haven't gotten that far yet.

I just bought the game in November and am in my first playthrough, but one of the events I've been looking forward to the most was confronting Cazador. Since Astarion has been one of my most constant companions (and thus who I decided to romance) it's been pretty built up for me throughout the game, and while I found the actual fight and everything afterwards very fun and rewarding getting to him felt.... disconcertingly empty and easy? Like, we just waltzed into his palace, no one barely even said a thing to us and aside from a room of random werewolves there was no battles either. There was like, four twitchy servants and a random dead kid. And Godey, but getting the key from him was surprisingly easy too. Like, we just asked and he was like 'Kay'. There wasn't much to find in any of the rooms either. I guess my suggestion would just be to add... more? Even if its not encounters just more background storytelling? I was hoping to find things about Astarion's time there, find out more about his 'Siblings' as I still don't know anything about the other Spawn he spent all his time with. And nothing about that dead kid makes sense! Its said she's Leon's daughter, but she's still a child so does that mean Leon is the 'youngest' of the Spawn? I got the impression the 'Siblings' had been around awhile, but that would imply Leon had only been one for maybe a couple years at most? How did he get so good at it immediately that he always earned the right to use the special rooms while the other spawn all bunked together Summer Camp style? It's implied he put the necrotic curse on her so keep the other spawn from biting her so I doubt that's why killed her, so what did? It's also implied that Cazador let her live there because he had a plan for her, what was it? I doubt it would have had to do with the Ascension because it wouldn't have made sense to kill her before it, or to let her live in the room with Leon instead of just turning her and throwing her into the cells with the other 7,000 below. I guess it just feels like there's a lot missing from this area, and so many little fragments of threads with no answers. Which again, really jumped at me since Cazador is such a built up character and confrontation so I just expected his area to be.... richer? So I'll just keep my fingers crossed that it gets added in in upcoming patches. Even if it's just diaries or notes to find to piece it all together, just anything to give me a sense of the place and the people who had been trapped and lived there for so long. People i'd become so desperately curious about throughout my run and who were such a large part of Astarion's... unlife? Including Cazador himself, we find nothing written from his hand. And I'll just end this with my long-shot I know it's never going to happen wish. Being able to talk to Sebastian again if you choose to free the 7,000. I just wanted one moment more with him to say 'See? I told you I would save you' but instead all 7,000 had managed to waddle awkwardly down to the sewers before I could even leave the room, apparently smirk


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agreed - as much as i'm invested in cosmetics & cats at camp & romance stuff (like a date night for ALL companions) - this is my one true ask (& the seemingly necessary inclusion/restoration of the upper city) of a definitive edition.

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Hard agree.

It's an issue with most boss fights and "dungeons" in Act 3 not just Cazador.

I found both House of Grief and the Bhaal Temple easy and empty after a lot of build-up. Cazador's dungeon, the Cloiser, and the Temple are just a corridor with a "boss" and a crowd of enemies at the end. I know they cut a lot of content from Act 3 but during my first playthrough, I was burnt out by how repetitive the fights/dungeons were. I wish they'd cut most of the smaller quests and put some effort into the companion quests and Chosen's fights. At this point, it isn't even just a story issue.

BTW a ton of stuff was cut for Cazador but the fragments are still there. The cousin was also cut.

Last edited by ahania; 30/12/23 10:35 PM.
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Mr. Data Mining said that Asatrion's quest was cut (quite a lot), didn't reveal his past and we could be allied with Cazador. Exploring the dark side of Baldur's Gate aristocracy in the upper city is a dream right now.

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I AGREE, I wish that they would have focused more on developing the main and companion quests and fleshing those out.
Like, there’s so little reaction to the last Durge quest, it really sucks. Good Durge, I was murdered by Bhaal and resurrected in a new body, and my companions are all just like “heh I knew you could do it,” without elaboration! No special cutscene other than Withers pulling deus ex machina on all of us, no camp scene afterwards. Didn’t like it at all.
They definitely need to focus on DEPTH rather than breadth in act 3, moving forward.

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Yeah, act 3 is clearly and severely unfinished. Everything about Cazador's place screams "cut content!".

Even the placement of the palace is super weird, almost as if it was built right into the city walls. I'd assume it was originally meant to be in the Upper City.

There is a weirdly large attic area with nothing of importance in it. Another fairly large secret area is hidden under a chest, with practically 0 loot.

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when i spoiled myself that astarion's "too drunk to think straight" during the ritual i expected francis ford coppola levels of goth like pouring rivers and spurting fountains of blood not a reskinned shart dungeon >:|

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It's pretty damn obvious that they ran out of time when it was the moment to implement Cazador's "mansion".
Which is probably why a powerful and influential vampire lord obsessed with flaunting his power (as it was described to us up to a point) somehow ended up living in a hole in the city walls.


Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN
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Originally Posted by PeppermintHippo
So I didn't see any threads about this, but I'm also new to the forums so I apologize if I didn't search correctly. I'll put my stuff in spoiler tags just since I'm talking about Act 3 stuff in case people haven't gotten that far yet.

I just bought the game in November and am in my first playthrough, but one of the events I've been looking forward to the most was confronting Cazador. Since Astarion has been one of my most constant companions (and thus who I decided to romance) it's been pretty built up for me throughout the game, and while I found the actual fight and everything afterwards very fun and rewarding getting to him felt.... disconcertingly empty and easy? Like, we just waltzed into his palace, no one barely even said a thing to us and aside from a room of random werewolves there was no battles either. There was like, four twitchy servants and a random dead kid. And Godey, but getting the key from him was surprisingly easy too. Like, we just asked and he was like 'Kay'. There wasn't much to find in any of the rooms either. I guess my suggestion would just be to add... more? Even if its not encounters just more background storytelling? I was hoping to find things about Astarion's time there, find out more about his 'Siblings' as I still don't know anything about the other Spawn he spent all his time with. And nothing about that dead kid makes sense! Its said she's Leon's daughter, but she's still a child so does that mean Leon is the 'youngest' of the Spawn? I got the impression the 'Siblings' had been around awhile, but that would imply Leon had only been one for maybe a couple years at most? How did he get so good at it immediately that he always earned the right to use the special rooms while the other spawn all bunked together Summer Camp style? It's implied he put the necrotic curse on her so keep the other spawn from biting her so I doubt that's why killed her, so what did? It's also implied that Cazador let her live there because he had a plan for her, what was it? I doubt it would have had to do with the Ascension because it wouldn't have made sense to kill her before it, or to let her live in the room with Leon instead of just turning her and throwing her into the cells with the other 7,000 below. I guess it just feels like there's a lot missing from this area, and so many little fragments of threads with no answers. Which again, really jumped at me since Cazador is such a built up character and confrontation so I just expected his area to be.... richer? So I'll just keep my fingers crossed that it gets added in in upcoming patches. Even if it's just diaries or notes to find to piece it all together, just anything to give me a sense of the place and the people who had been trapped and lived there for so long. People i'd become so desperately curious about throughout my run and who were such a large part of Astarion's... unlife? Including Cazador himself, we find nothing written from his hand. And I'll just end this with my long-shot I know it's never going to happen wish. Being able to talk to Sebastian again if you choose to free the 7,000. I just wanted one moment more with him to say 'See? I told you I would save you' but instead all 7,000 had managed to waddle awkwardly down to the sewers before I could even leave the room, apparently smirk

I was disappointed with the palace too. It was very obvious that a big part of the place was missing. Also, Astarion has nothing to say about
Velioth's lessons even if he's the one interacting with the skull.

The dead kid:
use speak with the dead, she'll tell you what happened. There's also Dalyria's journal somewhere.

Leon's special treatment can be explained with Cazador liking to mess with them. Keeps him in fear of losing the privileges and keeps the other spawn jealous.

As for things written by Cazador,
there's a journal somewhere, I forgot where exactly, where he gets increasingly mad about Astarion being missing.

Last edited by t1mekill3r; 31/12/23 09:36 AM.
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A minor thing: Yesterday I thought I might be clever about it and enter the palace from its sewer entrance - only to find it bricked up. Not even another arcane lock but solid stone. Usually the game is quite good at giving you different ways to approach a location so that was disappointing.

On a side note, it is funny to imagine all the fancy party guests in their fancy get-ups navigating the ladders that lead to the palace. Very elegant way do disguise disappearances "Oh him? He fell down a ladder at Cazador's. So sad really when they can't hold their drink or their balance."

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Originally Posted by Anska
On a side note, it is funny to imagine all the fancy party guests in their fancy get-ups navigating the ladders that lead to the palace. Very elegant way do disguise disappearances "Oh him? He fell down a ladder at Cazador's. So sad really when they can't hold their drink or their balance."

With so many fancy clothing options I have a hard time believing there wasn't a quest planned that required you to make use of them.

It's sad that we will never experience the Cazador quest as it was originally envisioned.

On a related note: the Umberlee Temple also clearly suffers from cut content. It takes up a fairly large chunk of the map area, but it has only the most minor and easy to miss quest attached to it. It feels like the water ladies were originally meant to be a recruitable faction.

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Originally Posted by MalacPok
On a related note: the Umberlee Temple also clearly suffers from cut content. It takes up a fairly large chunk of the map area, but it has only the most minor and easy to miss quest attached to it. It feels like the water ladies were originally meant to be a recruitable faction.

There's a plausible theory, that all three acts were supposed to have a different hag: green hag in act 1, night hag in act 2, and sea hag in act 3. I can't help but wonder if the original Umberlee quest was somehow tied to the cut sea hag.

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Originally Posted by ahania
There's a plausible theory, that all three acts were supposed to have a different hag: green hag in act 1, night hag in act 2, and sea hag in act 3. I can't help but wonder if the original Umberlee quest was somehow tied to the cut sea hag.

I had originally though Lucretious might be the Night Hag because of the staff that is identical to the one you can find in Auntie's chamber.

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Originally Posted by t1mekill3r
I was disappointed with the palace too. It was very obvious that a big part of the place was missing. Also, Astarion has nothing to say about
Velioth's lessons even if he's the one interacting with the skull.

The dead kid:
use speak with the dead, she'll tell you what happened. There's also Dalyria's journal somewhere.

Leon's special treatment can be explained with Cazador liking to mess with them. Keeps him in fear of losing the privileges and keeps the other spawn jealous.

As for things written by Cazador,
there's a journal somewhere, I forgot where exactly, where he gets increasingly mad about Astarion being missing.


I do remember Cazador's little journal now that you mention it, but I was hoping for just...more? I guess? Something to let me see a glimpse of him as a character and not just having to do with the Ascension? and
I did do Speak to Dead on Victoria, so I don't know if it used to be different and she actually talked to you but when I tried it it just said 'This corpse has nothing to say' which was irritating because I not only learned nothing I wasted a Speak to Dead scroll on it.
My main confusion with Leon is the timeline of him. I would fully believe that Cazador did the privileged room set up to mess with them, but how did Leon get so good at being Spawn of the Year if he'd only been a Spawn for a few years at most? Which he couldn't have been more than that if he had a 10 year old mortal daughter? And I would have liked to see journals or something from the other Spawn with their thoughts on that, or just anything about who they were and their thoughts on things. I know there was a few things sprinkled here and there, but if anything they just left me with more questions than answers. And as other people pointed out, for being this affluent Vampire Palace it was weirdly small and the fact that I could only get into it by getting up on a wall was... unique. Like, does it not have a front door? And why is this 'Palace' so.... dinky? I know the answers all boil down to 'lack of time' and 'cut content' but if they're still planning to add things in later patches I just think this is a place that could really use some attention and TLC. Even if it is just in adding notes and journals to find to piece it all together.


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I'm trying to remember, wasn't Leon a sorcerer before he became a spawn? Or am I getting that mixed up?

As for him being the best, maybe he had more skill than the others from his time alive. That wouldn't be surprising if he still had sorcerous powers. Or maybe the others had been tortured for so long that they just didn't care anymore about the special room privilege. Maybe Cazador simply lied to them and said Leon was "spawn of the month" to generate jealousy and competition for fun.

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He was also very motivated to be the best because he wanted the private room so he could keep his daughter at a saver distance from the other spawn. I would really like to see what the palace was supposed to look like. The building itself is ok, if a bit small, just the placement is majorly odd and suggests there wasn't any other space where it would fit.

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Originally Posted by JandK
I'm trying to remember, wasn't Leon a sorcerer before he became a spawn? Or am I getting that mixed up?

As for him being the best, maybe he had more skill than the others from his time alive. That wouldn't be surprising if he still had sorcerous powers. Or maybe the others had been tortured for so long that they just didn't care anymore about the special room privilege. Maybe Cazador simply lied to them and said Leon was "spawn of the month" to generate jealousy and competition for fun.

Yep he was a sorcerer.

Originally Posted by PeppermintHippo
but how did Leon get so good at being Spawn of the Year if he'd only been a Spawn for a few years at most?

He didn't have to actually be better than the others, Cazador doesn't do "fair". Leon had a mortal kid to somehow keep alive among starving vampires, giving him that privilege means he'll do anything without complaint to keep it, and live in constant fear of losing it anyway. When the spawn come to try and kidnap Astarion, if you explain the reality of the ritual to them, Leon's the one who first remembers that Cazador likes to give hope just to take it away.

While for the others it's the "youngest sibling" getting special treatment, undeserved.

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I just played through this part of Astarion’s quest last night and danggg, the palace does feel empty doesn’t it! I thought that Astarion was so popular because his questline culminates in a choice between breaking a cycle of generational trauma, versus embracing it and carrying it on to destructive effect. But I feel like that theme was pretty underdeveloped? Like it was there, and you can see it when you talk to the skull of Cazador’s previous master for example, but… it seemed rushed and not developed explicitly enough, to me at least?

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Originally Posted by Ecc2ca
But I feel like that theme was pretty underdeveloped? Like it was there, and you can see it when you talk to the skull of Cazador’s previous master for example, but… it seemed rushed and not developed explicitly enough, to me at least?

That's basically act 3 in a nutshell. I'm unfortunate enough to like Astarion a lot, and while I'm generally happy with his story, he could benefit from a few extra scenes in act 3. His story works as it is, but a few character moments wouldn't hurt him.

Last edited by ahania; 02/01/24 07:51 PM.
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Originally Posted by Ecc2ca
I just played through this part of Astarion’s quest last night and danggg, the palace does feel empty doesn’t it! I thought that Astarion was so popular because his questline culminates in a choice between breaking a cycle of generational trauma, versus embracing it and carrying it on to destructive effect. But I feel like that theme was pretty underdeveloped? Like it was there, and you can see it when you talk to the skull of Cazador’s previous master for example, but… it seemed rushed and not developed explicitly enough, to me at least?

It's very rushed. But I think if you relate to his experiences enough, you kinda forget about the palace as you watch him deal with Cazador and what happens after.

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