Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Human Versatility

Which one would you call mental gymnastics?

1. It was a poor balance decision that probably didn't even consider the point at the time. The dragonborn were balanced as a race (ostensibly) and the draconic sorcerer was balanced as a subclass. They probably didn't even consider the discrepancy at the time.

--or--

2. Dragonborn don't have scales. Obviously. Duh.

I mean, we're not even having the same discussion. I'm saying it was poorly designed and you're saying dragonborn don't have scales. As if dragonborn were real. Simply put, it makes for a better setting if dragonborn do have scales and those scales provide a similar AC to the draconic sorcerer's scales. As opposed to having debates about whether or not dragonborn have scales.

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I'm not calling anyone dumb. There's a difference between being dumb and being stuck in certain rhetorical bubbles. That's what I think's happening. I accept that you're probably plenty smart, but I honestly believe you haven't considered the matter enough. And a big part of my reason for thinking that is that I recognize your answers as the easy widely known "correct" answers that don't require much thought. And what I mean by "don't require much thought" is that the patented answers are practically programmed into folks. Especially folks who are a standard deviation above the average IQ.

ETA: I do apologize if I insulted you. Such was certainly not my Intention. In my head, the tone of my communication is largely devoid of emotion, neutral, although occasionally possessed by a sense of humor.

How are dwarves superior to humans? There is no reason to play as a dwarf other than for aesthetic reasons. Reduced base movement speed for some proficiencies that you would get anyway if you choose to play a class that rely on armour and melee.

For humans they replaced the extra feat according to the core rules with something that indeed is a lot worse, but the mountain dwarf is supposed to get an extra ability score point and they simply removed that without giving them anything else in return. They were simply nerfed because...elves weren't already popular enough I guess?

Actually, no.

Draconic bloodline sorcerers are specifically manifesting the powers of literal dragons. They might be distantly related, but their manifestation is explicitly based on actual full on dragons (Which is why they exhibit many actual dragon features. Dragon scales, claws, wings etc)

Dragonborn are simply manifesting Dragonborn features, which are distantly related to dragons but have been watered down through that distance.


This is a prime example of mental gymnastics.

I never said Dragonborn don't have scales. I said they don't have HARD DRAGON SCALES.

As I mentioned, scales aren't inherently tough. There are obviously different kinds of scales. Dragons, actual true dragons, have tough scales that provide them with a lot of defence (19 base AC for adult dragons. 22 base AC for ancient dragons)

Dragonborn might have scales, but it's not necessarily true that they're as hard as actual dragon scales. If we consider the mechanics as an indicator then it is suggestive that they're soft scales that provide no AC bonus.

Draconic Sorcerers manifest actual HARD DRAGON SCALES and so they get an AC bonus due to the protective nature of such hard scales (It's limitation to 13 AC is likely due to the fact that they only have a partial covering of scales. Whereas a Dragonborn is covered head to toe in scales which would indicate some level of increased AC if they were HARD DRAGON SCALES)

Thus there is no natural precedent for the "Flavour" of Dragonborn having increased AC, if the case is that they DON'T have HARD DRAGON SCALES and instead have soft scales that provide no AC bonus.

If anything, the most obvious flaw in "Flavour" design is with Draconic Sorcerers. Whom will lose their innate AC bonus if they wear a thick shirt. As if simply donning some clothing makes their scales soft. Due to the functionality of their bonus being akin to the Mage Armour spell and thus incompatible with worn armour. If we had accurate flavour, their AC would always be a base of 13 (Plus Dex mod) even if wearing armour.

Reading... parsing... understanding...



Reading... parsing... sighing.

You should try the reading and parsing parts of your statement again.

The distinction between the two is so clear that I realize we must be speaking different languages.

You're arguing in circles. JandK is saying the mechanics and flavor as written don't make sense ludonarratively, and should be adjusted. You're coming up with reasons those scales wouldn't give armor and the others would, but it's based only on "bc that's how it works right now". You're saying the mechanics already make sense with lore because that's how it was written. But that's JandK's entire point: they don't think it works as written.

Also you are 100% backtracking here. Also yes snake scales are more protective than just skin. That's how scales work.

Based on nothing besides the word "Dragon" in the name of the race.


Based on the actual lore of the race.

The lore of the race does not specify that they have the same scales as dragons.

The lore of the race does not grant them all of the features of dragons. With what features they do have being significantly weakened due to their genetical distance from their dragon ancestors.

This is backed up by the mechanics also not providing them with all of the features of dragons.

Flavourwise, it is not necessary for them to have an AC bonus as nothing explicitly mentions in their lore that they have protective scales.


Scales ARE skin. The only major advantage they have over skin is better retention of water to prevent dehydration.

Scales are no more resilient to damage than skin and in fact most of the tougher animals simply have skin, but very thick, things like rhinos, crocodiles, whales. With exceptions like pangolins whom have tough scales to provide additional protection as well as some deep sea fish that have hardened scales (Or things like sturgeon that reinforce their scales with bone scutes)

Which brings me back to my point that scales are not all the same. Some scales are specifically hard like those of the pangolin or dragons. Some scales are soft like those of snakes and apparently Dragonborn.

Simply having scales is not sufficient excuse for having bonus AC. Unless lore is written that Dragonborn specifically have hardened scales that offer additional protection, then it is not out of flavour for them to not receive bonus AC as a racial feature.

Outside of such lore, then it is not a forgone conclusion that Dragonborn must have bonus AC due to being scaled.

Dwarves have darkvision and resistance to poison. Depending on the subrace they also have bonus hit points or additional resistances and spell abilities. Agree that the Shield Dwarf subclass is a bit meh when compared to the other two dwarf options, but even with darkvision and resistance to poison are a notch up from human traits.