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Joined: Aug 2023
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an interesting description from https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Mind_flayercan our tav possible be "the Adversary"? if conditions are gothered.
While partialism normally takes the form of a few random memories, it is possible, if extremely uncommon, for a complete memory complexus capable of individual action to survive the ceremorphosis process. There were no records of these partial personalities being cognizant enough to escape active attempts at destruction, but there was an illithid myth of an entity called the Adversary, an illithid whose partial personality was strong enough to subsume the mind flayer's personality and sought to overthrow illithidkind under the innocent guise of a fellow mind flayer. There was no evidence for the legend, but it was popular as a story to frighten young-adult mind flayers.[88] However, one illithid calling itself The Emperor was somehow able to retain all memories of its previous life, and consequently broke free from the illithid hive mind to pursue its own agenda.
I'm not sure the Emperor was originally meant to be in The Adversary role, however there is an illithid lore tablet on the tutorial ship that references it and at that point it is obviously there to clue the player into who the Emperor ending up being in the final game. By the end of the game it could be The Emperor, Tav/Origin, or even Orpheus or Karlach. However in terms of illithid "culture" for lack of a better word The Adversary is more of a boogieman about the one that will end ALL their efforts, not just one colony's like in BG3. There's room for it to be taken as something of a religious myth, even though they genuinely fear such an entity, to help the Elder Brains maintain control of the colonies as they've been doing it for so long they no longer want to give that control up. By not allowing the mindflayers to develop personalities they're basically guaranteeing that the Adversary never appears, which is also why those born with arcane power often end up killed by the colony. There's also the theory that the illithid empire never actually existed and therefor was never actually overthrown... YET. And if so when the empire does rise, The Adversary will with it. That theory also causes some VERY interesting questions about how illithid colonies currently function with the Elder Brains in complete control, which in this scenario can be read as their own unwitting self-sabotage. Because for their empire as it's known to rise at all in this case mindflayers do need far more developed self-identity which requires far less direct control over them.
Last edited by Auric; 22/02/24 09:03 AM.
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I don't mean Omeluum's arcane powers, but how he acts. Omeluum finds companionship with Bluurg and doesn't seem to try to transform him, or mind thrall him. He does not prioritize his own life above others, even asks you to rescue the duke intead of him on the submarine. OH, I get you now. There's a small chance they took that from Critical Role season 1. At some point I think during the campaign wrap-up Matt talks about an arcane mindflayer they encountered early on after it was exiled and living alone, and how if they actually established trust and companionship with it, it could actually have become a real ally and friend to them. Otherwise that's also probably pulled from the lore bits about how they develop their own personalities. One that felt the need to escape because they weren't under control might have sympathized with those that mindflayers WOULD control and decided not to engage in such a thing. I don't know of any other notable examples, but it's the exact type of interesting thing that players would want to engage with in a tabletop campaign so I can see why they wrote Omeluum this way. Being willing to prioritize saving others is at least nicely consistent with the research he's doing to find alternate viable sustenance for his species. i think Omeluum just a typical renegade illithid, his personality is born after he escapes from an elder brain, the personality isn't from his original host.
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I'm not sure the Emperor was originally meant to be in The Adversary role, however there is an illithid lore tablet on the tutorial ship that references it and at that point it is obviously there to clue the player into who the Emperor ending up being in the final game. By the end of the game it could be The Emperor, Tav/Origin, or even Orpheus or Karlach. However in terms of illithid "culture" for lack of a better word The Adversary is more of a boogieman about the one that will end ALL their efforts, not just one colony's like in BG3. There's room for it to be taken as something of a religious myth, even though they genuinely fear such an entity, to help the Elder Brains maintain control of the colonies as they've been doing it for so long they no longer want to give that control up. By not allowing the mindflayers to develop personalities they're basically guaranteeing that the Adversary never appears, which is also why those born with arcane power often end up killed by the colony.
There's also the theory that the illithid empire never actually existed and therefor was never actually overthrown... YET. And if so when the empire does rise, The Adversary will with it. That theory also causes some VERY interesting questions about how illithid colonies currently function with the Elder Brains in complete control, which in this scenario can be read as their own unwitting self-sabotage. Because for their empire as it's known to rise at all in this case mindflayers do need far more developed self-identity which requires far less direct control over them. i think the meaning of the Adversary, is the original host's will control the illithid after the transformation? this means the Adversary is an other race that control an illithid body to slay an elder brain... how awful to an elder brain!  however, emperor just owns the host's memory, the will is from the illithid self.
Last edited by stevelin7; 22/02/24 09:21 AM.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Feb 2024
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In my opinion, the Dream Guardian we have is fine, but the twist of them being the Emperor is odd (and then it turns out they were Balduran too?). If our Guardian was simply the Emperor and not Balduran, I could accept it - it'd be the reason why they know so much about the tadpole. Especially if they were just an unwilling True Soul who was unfortunately turned before being sent out to search for the Astral Prism, thus ending up in there (who has a taste in very elaborate fashion, even for a Mind Flayer). That would be far less jarring. I think it'd be good if at every meeting or just when actually entering the Prism at the Creche, the player could pass an insight or perception to see the illusion slip for a moment.
Imagine yourself with the same strength. The same intelligence. The same devastating beauty.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2023
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Funny thing, there is a banter between Gale, Wyll and Laezel where they talk about how the mind flayers are organized (hives ruled by elder brains), and the possibility of a mind flayer "monarch" who could rule them all.
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