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veteran
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Joined: Dec 2020
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I think, they should stop listening to the thirst crowd ( I swear, if I hear one more stupid complaint about AA kisses, I will just loose it) and look to maybe expand some of the existing story lines. This, 100%. I never expected that but this huge part of the fandom kinda made me hate the fandom and the game to some degree. I can't stand all these horny, desperate people. Instead of having Haarlep take up time in the house of Hope for a frankly very creepy and weak mic drop on Raphael, focus on the story between the Hearthflame sisters, which is so much more interesting, than a rapey encounter with an incubus, who just pops up and brings nothing to the story at all. Haarlep brings sex to the table, that's it and that's what Larian's whole marketing is about. It has never been about the story or the secrets but about the romances, the sex options you don't (want to) have in real life and to some degree the brutality. The more I think about the, the more shallow the game feels outside of the characters. I mean , I'm coming from BioWare games and believe me, when I say, those fans are a thirsty crowd too. But it either got worse in general with the romance and sex thirst in games or the BG3 crowd seems to be extremely thirsty. Which I don't have a problem with, as long,as it doesn't take over the story. To stay with the House of Hope example: if there were more about the Hearthflame sisters, I wouldn't care about Haarlep lounging in the bodoir. But leaving the first story with so many questions and then opening up the second one and leave it unfinished too. I mean, it does seem, that there is some untold story between Haarlep and Raphael too, especially if you use Speak with Dead on Haarlep and get to know, that he was a gift from Mephistopheles, who is involved in more than one story throughout the game, namely Gortash, Durge and the crown and Astarion/Cazador with that ritual, plus being Raphaels father and I really would like to know more about the involvement in the whole story with Mephisto. But yeah, most people just don't look past the incubus sex and the insult for Raphael. I think, it is a bit of a wasted opportunity, especially since the hells okay such a major role.
Last edited by fylimar; 22/02/24 11:41 AM.
"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."
Doctor Who
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Yes the "off-screening" of the absolute reveal is another good one. I honestly can't remember all anymore, because it did not leave a lasting impression on me to the extent that I want to replay the game.
The reason I bring this up is that they could definetly invest money into touching up the storyline for a definitive edition. Like you I kept sitting there with the feeling of "this is about get good!", but it just never does. It is close to being a masterpiece but every time the story is about to build into something meaningful the threads of the story just, end? Or the reveals are anti climactic.
Also the amount of times you are just forced to nod along like an absolute moron without any reason or meaningful context for why you are doing so, is ridiculous. (I am just going to ignore this brain eating amoeba in my brain until whenever)
I can't even rembmer how many useless vases I checked, how many useless chests I dug up. How many storylines that just got wrapped up in a hurry. Act 3 feels like a completely different game in every regard, no well built fights, Gortash/Orin storylines lacking fill, and ending abruptly. But like Gray-ghost says, the problems start way earlier, they are just concealed better because act 1 and 2 are superior to 3. In the very second cinematic I am already annoyed, so I get knocked out by a random stone and I Would be dead if not for some random saving me ? Damn I really feel like a competent adventurer rn!
Edit*
More meh things I just remembered:
- And let us not forget when you are murdered by Bhaal and your "romance option" and "friends" are just watching silently, unbothered in the background ! So beta state it is laughable.
- I remember the first time you talk to the Dream Guardian there is a dialogue option saying : " Are you a mindflayer"? And I just remember thinking to myself, damn that would suck and just laughed it off. Imagine my disappointment when the Emperor confirmed it was just him all along.
- Can't remember a single time the group, actually bonded as a group.
Game can still be a masterpiece Larian, but you need to do a massive overhaul, then you can cash out on the definitive edition. Right now it is just mediocre. Maybe slightly above average. If you don't fix it I definetly won't be coming back to fund your development again !
Last edited by Surge90sf; 22/02/24 01:06 PM.
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I mean , I'm coming from BioWare games and believe me, when I say, those fans are a thirsty crowd too. But it either got worse in general with the romance and sex thirst in games or the BG3 crowd seems to be extremely thirsty. Which I don't have a problem with, as long,as it doesn't take over the story. To stay with the House of Hope example: if there were more about the Hearthflame sisters, I wouldn't care about Haarlep lounging in the bodoir. But leaving the first story with so many questions and then opening up the second one and leave it unfinished too. I mean, it does seem, that there is some untold story between Haarlep and Raphael too, especially if you use Speak with Dead on Haarlep and get to know, that he was a gift from Mephistopheles, who is involved in more than one story throughout the game, namely Gortash, Durge and the crown and Astarion/Cazador with that ritual, plus being Raphaels father and I really would like to know more about the involvement in the whole story with Mephisto. But yeah, most people just don't look past the incubus sex and the insult for Raphael. I think, it is a bit of a wasted opportunity, especially since the hells okay such a major role. I feel like sex and bad jokes is what Larian wanted to add whenever they could. The joke about Raphael is that of a 14yo, the dialogues with the Drow twins are so cringe and shallow, they tried to make jokes at the expense of some companions (like Gale) or wanted to add some problematic topics as kinky and jokey stuff. Then you have Mizora and all the companion's reactions. No way anyone would be like "Please tell me all the details" if you just had sex with someone who tormented someone from your group - but, as Surge90sf said, the ground doesn't even deserve to be called like that. It's just a bunch of (mostly lovely) people who are there to give you (mostly) good stories and to share some thirsty conversations with. But, as you said, that's enough for the crowd to be happy with. They even appreciate everything in the game and tell Larian to ignore whatever critical feedback we might come up with (if you want to see for yourself, check the Discord feedback channel for appreciation and this is only one of the white knights who defend the game at all cost and hate feedback. Let's just ignore the fact that feedback may allow a company to grow and make it better next time). Let's be honest: BG3 has a great soundtrack and nice graphics and some good companion story lines and that's about it, where is sticks out. EDIT: Even if Larian would fix some main story parts, the thirsty mass wouldn't even give a s$%& about it. Larian went all in to attract people only looking for a romance simulator. There are people already asking for more Astarion content when he already had 50.29% more content time on release than Wyll, not to mention Minthara or Halsin.
Last edited by Filia; 22/02/24 03:51 PM.
If you want to answer to any of my posts with just hate, please just don't answer at all.
If you want just to white knight everything and can't accept opinions, please don't even answer me.
Thank you!
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There are problems at every step of the way with this story, and the way I see it, they can mainly be traced to a lack of discipline on Larian's part, a lack of willingness to say no to ideas in favor of shoving in whatever seemed cool. If they had more time, we'd just get an upper city that has all the same problems and frustrations as the rest of the game, just maybe in a different package. yes, this is the focus. this causes origin characters loose their personabilities, they are mild as sheep. the story sould be -- no matter tav choose which route that you will loose some companions because of the companions' obsessions. that can not be persuaded. but tav should have more options to interact with the prism, his/her tadpole, and has the chance to control them via the story options. this is, the branch plots are strong in baldur's gate 3, but the main plots are stiff and lack options to interact. tav is shielded by emperor, this makes the main plots obviously stiff and lack options. still, i am happy to see the screenwriter strengthen withers' affect to the story main plots. this makes the story has its center of gravity concept.
Last edited by stevelin7; 24/02/24 02:53 AM.
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Believe it based on what, though? There's evidence to suggest they had to cut the upper city out of act three, but the problems with the game go far beyond that. To the attack of a major city by a nautiloid going unremarked upon ever at any point, to the fact that a major section of land near a major city is horribly cursed and basically no one ever mentions it beyond that area, the way the game does not seem to actually know who the central antagonist is or if it does, utterly fails at presenting it. They added two companions by fan demand and completely screwed up in doing so, while a main companion who by evidence was always seeminglyintended to be a companion has a storyline that's just "collect these bits of useless metal and have a few conversations" only to then have a thematically baffling conclusion. Or the main villain of the second act, whose whole story revolves around family, having three random family members who no one in the game ever talks about and who muddle his themeing by their mere presence. Then there's the fact that we are presented with two ways to make it the the act 2 zone and they're framed as mutually exclusive, but there's actually no reason at all not to go to both, and in fact if you don't go to one of them then you lose one of your companions as well as missing out on informtion that makes later events of the story make complete sense. There are problems at every step of the way with this story, and the way I see it, they can mainly be traced to a lack of discipline on Larian's part, a lack of willingness to say no to ideas in favor of shoving in whatever seemed cool. If they had more time, we'd just get an upper city that has all the same problems and frustrations as the rest of the game, just maybe in a different package.
Let me point you to one other baffling choice there's really no excuse for; in the ilithid hive you can find notes that entirely spoil the reveal that the Absolute is a controlled elderbrain. What? When I first read those notes I thought "wow, if they're willing to spoil that, what other reveals do they have set up that they're saving? Turns out, nothing. Nothing at all. They just undermined what could have been an awesome moment for no apparent reason. That's what I call a lack of discipline. Stop asking for the people who made this poor story to fix it, they can't, they never could. Accept that the story is bad and move on to other games that do have good stories. My believe was mostly build upon hope, tbh. But everything you said is on point and there is no reason to deny that the story is really bad. I always wondered why Larian ended up winning awards for best story but I guess it's more to hype and "just pick the most popular no matter if deserved or not" in the fact, the witcher 3 is the same bad in act 2, the stupid castle crush makes the old witcher dead gratuitously. just the act 3 final, the beheading assault makes the witcher 3 is merely good(75/100). some of the branch quests are interesting, makes geralt as sherlock holmes. but the main plots are just good only. it's hard to image that it's the same screenwirter with the dlc "hearts of stone" (91/100 excellent). but the other dlc "blood and wine" is only good(75/100), it's easy to see writing from the same writer with the witcher 3 main story.
Last edited by stevelin7; 24/02/24 06:20 AM.
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Believe it based on what, though? There's evidence to suggest they had to cut the upper city out of act three, but the problems with the game go far beyond that. To the attack of a major city by a nautiloid going unremarked upon ever at any point, to the fact that a major section of land near a major city is horribly cursed and basically no one ever mentions it beyond that area, the way the game does not seem to actually know who the central antagonist is or if it does, utterly fails at presenting it. They added two companions by fan demand and completely screwed up in doing so, while a main companion who by evidence was always seeminglyintended to be a companion has a storyline that's just "collect these bits of useless metal and have a few conversations" only to then have a thematically baffling conclusion. Or the main villain of the second act, whose whole story revolves around family, having three random family members who no one in the game ever talks about and who muddle his themeing by their mere presence. Then there's the fact that we are presented with two ways to make it the the act 2 zone and they're framed as mutually exclusive, but there's actually no reason at all not to go to both, and in fact if you don't go to one of them then you lose one of your companions as well as missing out on informtion that makes later events of the story make complete sense. There are problems at every step of the way with this story, and the way I see it, they can mainly be traced to a lack of discipline on Larian's part, a lack of willingness to say no to ideas in favor of shoving in whatever seemed cool. If they had more time, we'd just get an upper city that has all the same problems and frustrations as the rest of the game, just maybe in a different package.
Let me point you to one other baffling choice there's really no excuse for; in the ilithid hive you can find notes that entirely spoil the reveal that the Absolute is a controlled elderbrain. What? When I first read those notes I thought "wow, if they're willing to spoil that, what other reveals do they have set up that they're saving? Turns out, nothing. Nothing at all. They just undermined what could have been an awesome moment for no apparent reason. That's what I call a lack of discipline. Stop asking for the people who made this poor story to fix it, they can't, they never could. Accept that the story is bad and move on to other games that do have good stories. My believe was mostly build upon hope, tbh. But everything you said is on point and there is no reason to deny that the story is really bad. I always wondered why Larian ended up winning awards for best story but I guess it's more to hype and "just pick the most popular no matter if deserved or not" in the fact, the witcher 3 is the same bad in act 2, the stupid castle crush makes the old witcher dead gratuitously. just the act 3 final, the beheading assault makes the witcher 3 is merely good(75/100). some of the branch quests are interesting, makes geralt as sherlock holmes. but the main plots are just good only. it's hard to image that it's the same screenwirter with the dlc "hearts of stone" (91/100 excellent). but the other dlc "blood and wine" is only good(75/100), it's easy to see writing from the same writer with the witcher 3 main story. Interesting you shouldbring up Witcher 3. I think that two games share a significant similarity in that their main plots are both effectively conceits there to make you move through the story and experienceits variousbits of side content. The main difference is not only is its Witcher 3s main plot better than BG3s, but Witcher is structuredthe way I described on purpose, whereas BG3 is that way because its main plot is so poorly constructed that the side content is the only thing players can reasonably feel investment in.
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Interesting you shouldbring up Witcher 3. I think that two games share a significant similarity in that their main plots are both effectively conceits there to make you move through the story and experienceits variousbits of side content. The main difference is not only is its Witcher 3s main plot better than BG3s, but Witcher is structuredthe way I described on purpose, whereas BG3 is that way because its main plot is so poorly constructed that the side content is the only thing players can reasonably feel investment in. i think one of the major causes is that the screenwriter gives the origin characters too much plasticity. this will absoultely cause that the screenwriter has to put a lot of time in the origin characters' interaction with the main story and each other. for reducing the complex, the screenwriter can not give the main story have too many interaction to the origin characters. thus, the main story is shielded by emperor. "one emperor" vs "many origin characters" (one to many) this aviods "many main story options" vs "many origin characters". (many to many) however, i would like to see the origin characters have their strong characters with strong personalities and they are just npcs(companions) in the main story. this will be -- "many main options" vs "tav" (many to one) in this light, the main story can be robusted and described clear. this will be as "dragon age -- origin" or "never winter night -- the hordes of underdark".
Last edited by stevelin7; 24/02/24 09:13 AM.
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Is the sountrack good though ? Yes it is "good". But as far as fantasy soundtracks go I would classify it as below average, considering fantasy soundtracks most of the time are amazing.
The companions are written well, but I mean, I can't find the motivation to play through the game when the journey you share with them makes so little sense, and is so unpolished as well.
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Imo kind of ridiculous to compare BG3 to Witcher 3, since Witcher 3 is better in every single regard except maybe companion stories.
Can it achieve the same level as Witcher 3? Yes, with a massive polish and overhaul for the definitive edition. Right now? Nowhere close, most of the stories don't feel memorable at all.
Last edited by Surge90sf; 24/02/24 05:21 PM.
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Imo kind of ridiculous to compare BG3 to Witcher 3, since Witcher 3 is better in every single regard except maybe companion stories.
Can it achieve the same level as Witcher 3? Yes, with a massive polish and overhaul for the definitive edition. Right now? Nowhere close, most of the stories don't feel memorable at all. obviously, baldur's gate 3 isn't so bad. even, i think that baldur's gate 3 deserve 90/100 when i finish act 2. and, this means that i give a much high affim to baldur's gate 3. whereas, when i finished the witcher 3 act 2 play, i only give the score 59/100. due to the stupid castle crush and i have to say geralt is an unqualified assassin for assassinating King Radovid V.  i give the witcher 3 the score 75/100 final, because the final battle is good, but not a surprise, not beyond the view i can imiage. go back to the topic baldur's gate 3 -- just, i am confused that why the screenwriter gives our players such a no fun tease -- an emperor who shields the main stroy. and, everything is rushed in act 3 to force players to do the wrong decision in final. i do irritate about this. since the screenwriter somehow looses his/her emphasis. the game emphasis is that a supreme existence who can order withers wants know "the value of mortals via tav's view". in this light, the supereme existence aims via a proper chess game to know his desire and will give tav generous award. however, i see the screenwriter how to set tav a trap and tease players. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- note : i think that we shouldn't think the story of baldur's gate is a trial to tav. we should see tav is actual a chess player. since i think tav was a dark urge 15 years ago who somehow resists all of his/her dark urge and pass the trial. whereas, the dark urge didn't pass the trial and becomes one of the origin characters. thus, tav is the supereme existence's chosen one.
Last edited by stevelin7; 25/02/24 06:10 AM.
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old hand
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I think Larian should now write a "comic book" story relating the events leading up to the nautiloid attack.
I would suggest to work with the non-durge scenario. They should start with the separate backstories of Gortash (his childhood and rise as criminal in BG and how he became Bane's chosen) , Orin ( changeling origin and rise to Bhaal's chosen) and Ketheric's complex journey through sorrow, making him the Shar despot and later Myrkul chosen.
Then they can relate how the 3 dead gods planned to create the absolute and set the machine in motion, using their chosen to dominate the elder brain under moonrise towers.
They can then paint the backstories of the NPC characters ( including hunt for the artefact) and how they all get sucked into the nautiloid.
Some backstory of the artefact, the nethercrown and Raphaël would also be added.
Every time they hit a gap , contradiction or inconsistency they can make a decision to make it all fit together. Hopefully the emperor will disappear.
When the comic book is ready they can sell it, so the effort is not just a waste of time.
Then they can attune the game' s scenario so it matches aforementioned complete and consistent story.
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Did Larian ever comment on improving the storyline?
The reason I bring this up is because I saw someone comment somewhere that Larian have done it for the definitive edition of some of their previous games. I mean the issues with the storyline can be easily fixed as the framework for it is already there. And then they would have a nice cashout with the definitive edition, which would problably sell more than any definitive edition they have realeased before.
As it stands though, can't really bring myself to sit through it again. They way momentum builds up until the end of act 2 and just falls off a cliff. The way you are stuck being the emperors bitch for 150 hours. The way everyone is running around willfully ignorant of a brain eating ameoba. The way every party member becomes a silent mannequin in act 3. I just can't get into it sadly. I would rather just replay DA:O or MOTB.
Was hoping BG3 would scratch my DnD universe/RPG itch, but nah. Are there any games recently that fulfills what BG3 should have been (next gen-ish RPG/DnD)?
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Did Larian ever comment on improving the storyline?
The reason I bring this up is because I saw someone comment somewhere that Larian have done it for the definitive edition of some of their previous games. I mean the issues with the storyline can be easily fixed as the framework for it is already there. And then they would have a nice cashout with the definitive edition, which would problably sell more than any definitive edition they have realeased before.
As it stands though, can't really bring myself to sit through it again. They way momentum builds up until the end of act 2 and just falls off a cliff. The way you are stuck being the emperors bitch for 150 hours. The way everyone is running around willfully ignorant of a brain eating ameoba. The way every party member becomes a silent mannequin in act 3. I just can't get into it sadly. I would rather just replay DA:O or MOTB.
Was hoping BG3 would scratch my DnD universe/RPG itch, but nah. Are there any games recently that fulfills what BG3 should
have been (next gen-ish RPG/DnD)? yes, so i always stop the game in act 2 final.  due to i cannot accept the screenwriter tease us via emperor. i think many players unwill play act 3 and stop in act 2 final. actually, emperor can be replaced by the original setting "daicy -- the dream lover". though the massive change would be seen as a dlc project, but the benefit will show on the number of people online. i never suggest the witcher 3 to improve the story, just because i can not see the story can be improved to a real epic story. but i see the very high possibility baldur's gate 3 can be, so i propose the suggestion.
Last edited by stevelin7; 29/02/24 12:46 AM.
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