Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Regarding Shadowheart, Wyll and the openes of the 5e background system

First off, I don't know if this belongs in the Suggestion thread or here, but I want to discuss how I think Larian did not fully exploit the background system in creating open characters that can fit multiple people's interpretations of the companions.

I will tackle Shadowheart first by cross posting this thread from Reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/BG3Builds/comments/1avx4z7/unpopular_respecs_that_are_justifiable_from_a/

To me this post shows Larian focused too much on describing characters based on their class and not their background. A prime example of this to me is found both on the main page of Larian Studios as well as super late in Act 3 where inside a book itel called "Artefact Mission: Agent Roster" written by Viconia Devir, they wrote of Shadowheart as being just a healer, when it would have been more accurate to refer to her as Magical Support.

This acknowledges the mechanical flexibility of 5e's Cleric class while creating in lore justifications to play Shadowheart as either a Wizard or a Sorcerer because, as explained in the above post, the way DnD 5e's Background system work is that in spite of the environment you grew up, you can whimsically insert a mentor figure to justify having any class you want, despite say choosing a disenfranchised background such as the Urchin or the Outlander.

This could even extend to both Karlach and Laezel but they were written very specifically to be martial combatants, therefore you don't have as much flexibility as with Shadowheart in that, with minor tweaks, you can make her cannon class be ambiguous.

Now on to Wyll. Calling him the Blade of the Frontiers while making it painfully obvious that Wyll couldn't beat a kid without Mizura's aid is extremely limiting. And even bad from a gameplay perspective as you are given at level 1 a weapon with which you aren't proficient and must pass on to Lae'zel.

If Larian would just change his title from the "Blade of the Frontiers" to the "Brave of the Frontiers" it would be much more enjoyable for the players to roleplay Wyll as either a Pact of the Tome or Pact of the Chain Warlock. An even bigger bonus would be if they made a custom background from Wyll who retains his Inspiration Sources. I would go with something like "the Fraud" gaining proficiency in Persuasion and Survival, in order to make picking him as an Origin character less of a hassle to min max for higher difficulties.

To conclude my point I will now provide an example as to how flexible the Background system for DnD 5e actually is, by showcasing two characters I made to help prove my point.

"Nero and Vincent are an odd duo, due to the fact that their luck in life help elevate them above their assigned stations in life.

Nero's mannerisms as an Outlander are an eyesore to the general public, in part due to his socially awkward behavior or upbringing, but few suspect that he is in fact a very competent Wizard, especially skilled in the art of Divination.

This however pales with the hypocrisy of Vinnie's beliefs. Once he gets going, it's impossible to stop this scrawny bastard talk about the importance of respecting nature, as he stuffs his face with either sweets or brandy.

At his core he is a street kid through and through, but few know that he is in fact a very capable Druid, capable of assuming many forms. You wouldn't think it at first because Vinnie is very street smart, something he learned while growing up as one of the many Urchins of Baldur's Gate.

However, only the locals know that, if not for that Gnome, Vinnie wouldn't have a stable job as an adventurer and would probably be going in and out of jail for petty thefts."

In this example, I tired to make it as obvious as I can that Nero is a Wizard with the Outlander background, while Vincent is a Druid with the Urchin background.

The same methodology can easily apply to Shadowheart, thanks to the fact that a religious cloister can attract a plethora of talented people, in the world of Faerun. This could also extend to the rest of the BG3 cast, except for Halsin, who is a canonized Archdruid.

Larian could sell this concept even better on their webpage for BG3 by altering the titles of the characters. For example they can change Lae'zel's title from Fighter to Soldier and Shadowheart from Cleric to Acolyte and Loyal Warrior to Loyal Confidant.

See, you're missing the point of Wyll. Wyll was written by white writers to be a black man who was incompetent and talentless on his own, so he got his powers the easy and lazy way by consorting with devils, to contrast him with the white spellcaster who was so smart and awesome at magic that a goddess got horny for him.

Making a coherent and complete story for him was never a priority for Larian.

I think that these changes would be to the detriment of the story and characters. The game already has shake foundations because of how open Larian ha made everything. These characters are characters, written from the ground up and given unique aspects and little mannerisms. Larian trying to make them as changeable as possible would only serve to flatten them and make them more limited in how well they can be characterised. They should be written with class in mind as well as background, and players respeccing them shouldn't be accounted for. If a player does so, they should accept going outside of canon.

No, I understood those things. Thing is, I feel Larian over comited to Wyll being a sword wielding Folk Hero. If Larian were to change Wyll title to "Brave of the Frontier" or something more ambiguous, then all Warlock pacts would become lore accurate for Wyll, increasing overall satisfaction.


I'd argue that in 5e, background matters more than the actual class, so recalibrating the story so it makes more use of the background and less use of the class would be an upgrade. They used this formula for Dark Urge and it worked perfectly.

That's true, but this isn't just talking about 5e, it's talking about specifically this game and this story, which is frankly, seperate from the system of 5e in terms of writing and characterization. It worked for Dark Urge because Durge was built from the beginning to be a character open for the player to alter as they wished. The dark urge as they exist in the past doesn't interact with the player so they can just not give specifics, unlike the companions who do interact and have very strong characters. Specifically making them more malleable would have been a mistake in a game that's already mushy and narrately incoherent.

While what you say is certainly applicable to Lae'zel, Karlach and Gale, I think this doesn't apply as much to Astarion (who is fine as is), Shadowheart and Wyll.

Not sure if you checked the Reddit post, but the initial pitch for justifying that Shadowheart could be a form of cryptic bard, garnerned over 100 likes and prompted several debates, some of which make sense, such as the Astarion Shadow Monk trope.

While I can see the risk of plying more on Shadowheart's background and less on her class could be seen as a risk to some, I don't consider my second ask of changing Wyll's nickname from "Blade of the Frontiers" to "Brave of the Frontiers" to decanonize him as a Blade Warlock is that much of a big of an ask, considering the fact that the end of the day - he is still a fraud dependent on Mizura to get stuff done.