I just finished my first playthrough and went with Shadowheart as my partner, and it was a truly wonderful experience, but the one thing I was disappointed with was that at no point in the romance was I given the option to tell her "I love you." I've seen clips of Karlach's reaction to saying "I love you" to her, and it's such a cute moment, I wish I could've had a moment like that with Shadowheart, to see how she reacts to being told that in no uncertain terms as opposed to the usual coy flirting. Honestly, it should be available for every romance, given the weight those words can have in any relationship.
On that note, I also really loved the new kissing animations added with patch 6, but if anyone at Larian is interested in my thoughts, there are a few tweaks and a few more additions I'd personally really love!
Firstly, and this doesn't just have to be limited to your romance partner, but it'd be nice to be able to hug your companions like you can at the reunion during the rest of the game, when they know you enough to agree to it of course.
Secondly, the reset to standing apart after a kiss is a bit awkward, so it'd be really nice if each kiss would pause while you're still close or embracing and give you the option to keep kissing which can be selected repeatedly, pull back and keep talking, or leave the conversation. Similarly, hugging could pause while you're in the embrace and would just need an option to pull back for when you want to end it.
Thirdly, it'd be really wonderful to have the option to cuddle with your companion while you're at camp, but I totally get that that's probably the biggest ask cuz it'd require more mocapping and even more dialog to be mocapped in that position rather than the usual standing face to face positioning unless you implemented it with no dialog.
If anyone else has any thoughts or suggestions of their own, I'd love to hear them!
As someone who romanced Karlach very often, Shadowheart lacks sorely in the 'I love you' department. It's like both her and Tav are scared to say those magic words somehow.
I get it, actions can show love but it's also nice on occasion, to tell your LI you love them or hear it from them.
As someone who romanced Karlach very often, Shadowheart lacks sorely in the 'I love you' department. It's like both her and Tav are scared to say those magic words somehow.
I get it, actions can show love but it's also nice on occasion, to tell your LI you love them or hear it from them.
Totally agree with your post.
She calls Tav "true love" or "love", but no option directly tell her those words do suck.
As someone who romanced Karlach very often, Shadowheart lacks sorely in the 'I love you' department. It's like both her and Tav are scared to say those magic words somehow.
I get it, actions can show love but it's also nice on occasion, to tell your LI you love them or hear it from them.
Totally agree with your post.
She calls Tav "true love" or "love", but no option directly tell her those words do suck.
But she also never directly says "I love you" either. That could be a nice little conversation. Maybe asking why she's afraid to say it? It could lead to some potentially nice scene where SH explains it.... which of course won't happen. Eh.
As someone who romanced Karlach very often, Shadowheart lacks sorely in the 'I love you' department. It's like both her and Tav are scared to say those magic words somehow.
I get it, actions can show love but it's also nice on occasion, to tell your LI you love them or hear it from them.
Totally agree with your post.
She calls Tav "true love" or "love", but no option directly tell her those words do suck.
But she also never directly says "I love you" either. That could be a nice little conversation. Maybe asking why she's afraid to say it? It could lead to some potentially nice scene where SH explains it.... which of course won't happen. Eh.
True, I was trying to say that this is supposed to be not a big deal, since she calls you thant and, well, how her romance plays out and ends up. But it for sure would be a nice addition. As I said, I think the best timing for this is to add this to her "future plans" act 3 scene.
As someone who romanced Karlach very often, Shadowheart lacks sorely in the 'I love you' department. It's like both her and Tav are scared to say those magic words somehow.
I get it, actions can show love but it's also nice on occasion, to tell your LI you love them or hear it from them.
Totally agree with your post.
In acts 1 and 2, I could see saying it causing Shadowheart to pull away in actual fear from her upbringing, which would be interesting to see too, but saying it back should have as much weight as her swimming scene in her casting off the shackles of her past. That might actually be the perfect scene to say it in IMO.
Throughout act 3 and even after the final fight, she repeatedly asks you if you really want to stay by her side or if you regret what you've done with her. Every time you call her beautiful she says "I know" with such confidence, it just tugs on my heartstrings how she can't help but fear that you might change your mind at the last moment, and it takes months of being together for her to truly feel safe.
I just wanna give her a hug and tell her I love her and that I'm never changing my mind! It really would be so nice to say and to hear her say back.
As I said, I think the best timing for this is to add this to her "future plans" act 3 scene.
Personally, I'd be interested to see her reaction to saying it post grove/pre nightsong, but I think the best timing to say it and for her to say it back is the swimming scene, when she's casting off her past inhibitions and fears. I think she actually does fear those words, she fears committing to someone only to lose them or for them to leave her. It honestly brought me to tears a little to hear her say all those hopeful things when you talk to her in the final fight after a lifetime of hopelessness.
Just wanted to up-post as I agree it would be so great if you could cuddle your romanced companion at camp, and you're so on point about pausing after a kiss so you can decide to kiss again or talk or leave. Just some subtle things to make things feel a little more streamlined and romantic, rather than disjointed in that moment. Adding hugs for romanced companions would be so good too, and sometimes it would be nice to give companions a friendly (platonic) hug if they're going through a hard time.
I don't know what it is like for Shadowheart's kisses, but for Gale's kiss animations it is relevant that you stand apart at the beginning and the end because none of them were conceptualised as part of a make-out session. One of them even plays into the theme that he just wants to give the PC a little playful peck on the cheek and the PC reals him back in. So I am quite alright with that because the kisses are beautiful and I can suspend disbelieve enough to put them in a row
I do agree having the ability to tell characters you love them would be good in their can we talk about us dialogue you can tell them at critical points in the story especially after their personal quest completion.
Spawn Astarion certainly could do with the reassurance.
I disliked how unsure Spawn Astarion feels about your feelings towards him during the epilogue... when you get the choices of what you want to do. He acted like you were still just a fling... after his graveyard scene where he made it clear he wants you in his future. I like that he needs affirmation, but I felt like we couldn't give him adequate affirmation during that epilogue scene before the party. "I love you" and seeing the joy it might bring to have him hear that would be amazing. Why is Karlach the only one we can love?
I didn't see Spawn Astarion's reaction as a show of insecurity about your relationship, at least not completely, more as an insecurity about how to be in an equal relationship. For most of the game he has been trying to manipulate you into doing what he wants, now you are partners he doesn't want to do that any longer and takes the decision-making to the other extreme and becomes a bit too careful. I don't think an "I love you" adequately fixes the lack of actually doing/deciding things together or makes up for not being able to tell him how highly you think of him - in case you do, of course. I'd also wish the affirmation in the couple scene at the end was more enthusiastic - it would have been such a great place to fire that "There's nothing I want more" back at him.
I'm tempted to put a copy of my original post under suggestions and feedback, but this is why I put it here, besides that I didn't see that section lol.
IMO saying "I love you" can convey so much more than that you're absolutely committed to the relationship and will never leave. It can convey that you want what they want, not just because you're passing on the choice to them, but because you are so on the same wavelength that you literally feel exactly the same way they do and your decisions match up.
In spawn astarion's case, it could be perfect for conveying that your relationship isn't just a manipulation like all the flings he tricked under cazador's command and for getting him to admit to himself the truth of his own feelings. You chose him of your own free will and he chose you of his, and both your feelings are real.
"There's nothing I want more" would also be a great option, but I think you're underestimating the power and meaning of the words "I love you."
Am I too argumentative again? I am sorry, I can stop, if you prefer. I get the feeling that discussion these days often just means agreeing.
I think, "I love you" "I am in love with you" is a nice thing to say. It tells the other person that they hold a special place in your heart, but that's about it. It makes no statement about which gravity this feeling holds for you - some people use it lightly others don't, the Astarion romance even makes fun of it in the beginning. The "you are the one I love, the one I want" and Astarion's "I love you, I love this" are well suited for the graveyard scene as a sealing of the bond, as a confirmation that you are in a proper relationship now, but they don't have gravitas.
What I mean by that. As an example: I romanced Astarion with Gale. During his audience with Mystra, he has an option to tell her that his new love is the reason he defied her orders. How great would it be, if he could tell the same to Astarion? For me telling Astarion you defied your goddess for him, that the only reason you are alive is because he reached out and gave you something to live for, holds much more weight than another "I love you". And I am sure that for all the other Origins and Durge you could find similar points in their personal quests in which Astarion has been the character's saviour.
Even telling him how scared you were for him when Cazador zapped him away for the ritual would be nice. It's a shared memory that could be used to show that you can really overcome difficult situations together, without needing the power of some devilish ritual.
First of all, no you weren't being to argumentative, you just expressed a contradictory opinion to mine and given my limited knowledge of how astarion's romance goes and my own interpretation of the meaning of the phrase, I disagreed, and that's okay!! That's what these forums are for, for expressing ourselves and our different experiences with a great game!
In case my first paragraph wasn't clear, I meant that the reason why it fits here and not just under the suggestions is because this discussion is primarily about how romances develop for each character and what we could do or say in the romance that would be interesting to explore their character further or that would just make us happy to see! It's a character discussion!
I wasn't aware that astarion uses the words "I love you" at the start of the relationship to seal the deal. That's completely different from shadowheart's romance where she's scared of openly acknowledging the relationship or even admitting her feelings because of her upbringing. I guess it makes sense given how astarion was going out in public seducing people with no regard for the consequences of anything he said and then returning to that mansion to be abused.
Tho in my original post I specifically said saying "I love you" should be available in every romance, and in this case those words are already exchanged with astarion in the game, I can see why you'd want a different exchange to convey those same, intense feelings that might help the character feel reassured in the relationship when those words in particular don't carry as much weight for him.
Although, idk if you've seen this scene from good will hunting, but sometimes something that just sounds like a platitude because you've heard it so many times from people who didn't mean it or said it without meaning it yourself, when said with sincerity, when said over and over with patience and love, can tear down the walls you put up around your heart. I wonder if maybe those words that sound so insincere to astarion, words that are just part of a ritual to force commitment in an otherwise untrustworthy relationship he knows can end with betrayal at a moments notice without it, might be able to break through to him if you had the option to say them to him again and again, as many times as you'd like.
Last edited by Orenji-kun; 12/03/2412:48 AM. Reason: Clarifying first reply and cleaning up useless brackets
I support you, this is a very necessary option in dialogues, especially in Act 3, where unfortunately we have a minimum of communication with companions.
Exactly the same as all characters should have a “first kiss”.
Greg Lidstone (Larian Studios) said it well in an interview: “I think for a lot of people, that first kiss is key. It’s the culmination of the relationship and would cheapen the player experience to cut away from it. The player has invested time and emotion to get here and they want that payoff to their commitment, and we certainly didn’t want to let them down.”
But it’s strange that Gale, for example, doesn’t actually have this “first kiss”. This kiss looks weird (Last Night Alive). Even worse, it has been added to a dialogue where many people use it as an option when they simply don’t want to talk about their feelings or the feelings just aren’t there.
It's disappointing that such an important point was simply missed. It would be nice if Larian changed the scene, or added that kiss earlier, in some other scene.
But it’s strange that Gale, for example, doesn’t actually have this “first kiss”. This kiss looks weird (Last Night Alive). Even worse, it has been added to a dialogue where many people use it as an option when they simply don’t want to talk about their feelings or the feelings just aren’t there.
It's disappointing that such an important point was simply missed. It would be nice if Larian changed the scene, or added that kiss earlier, in some other scene.
What's wrong with it or with using a kiss when your character does not want to talk about their feelings because they are a bit muddled? I like that scene and think it's overall very sweet.
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