Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Why even have "evil" path?

I took the "evil" path in my Durge run. But in the end I took the "good durge" path. But anyway, I joined the goblins and exterminated the tieflings and druids in the grove. in Act 1
And then I thought "hmmmmm......"

On the "good" path, Halsin urges you to avoid the shadow cursed lands at all costs and risk the perilous underdark to find a shorter route to Moonrise. However he lets the Tieflings travel on through these lands to Baldur's gate. Isn't that evil ? So many are effectively killed (and turned into shadows ?), or taken prisoner for torture and turning to illithid. Isn't this more evil than giving them a swift death by the blade at the camp ?

How does the "evil" of exterminating the druids compare to letting Kharga do her thing and complete the rite of thorns ?

I think the game did a fairly good job, raising some dilemma's of war.

See, I don't think that the writers actually thought of that. This is a case where it's not really a moral dilema, it's just sloppy writing. The tieflings were never trying to go to Moonrise. They were waylaid by the cult and they skirted the shadowcursed lands to keep away. But because of the cult's presence they had to go through it, which clearly wasn't their plan otherwise someone would at some point have mentioned "hey, we're going to be travelling through this deadly curse area. If the situation had been a little more in their favor they'd have just avoided the shadowcursed lands all together. Meanwhile the underdark in that case would have been a non-option for a large group of non-combatants that includes children.

It's a matter of motivations and end goals.

"Good" path is one of altruism. You're doing it to help others, the end goal is to make the world a better place for citizens.

"Neutral" path is one of pragmatism. It would generally be a good idea to stop tyrants, psychopaths and world ending disasters.

"Evil" path is one of egotism. You want to make things better for yourself. More power, more wealth, more influence.


It's not necessarily that the challenges are evil, but how you choose to approach them are evil. More "Kill now, ask questions later" or deceiving/coercing people to further your agenda.

As far as overcoming evil/joining the evil... That depends on the specific story. The general idea is there's something you wish to gain and Evil McEvilface is likely doing something that will result in their power being increased and you want to take it.

A good example of this in BG3 is Astarion's story. Cazador is Mr Evil McEvilface and he is on a plan to Ascend to gain power. Astarion can thwart him and gain that power himself. The end result is still that the big Evil is gone, just as in a "Good" path, but the difference of gaining the power in an evil path vs the power being removed completely in a good path.


It would be things like, working together with the Absolute more. With more content where you get to flex being a True Soul.

Perhaps you can convince Balthazaar to help you overthrow Ketheric.

Given that the game sets up animosity between Ketheric, Gortash and Orin there could be content where you ally with one of them to dispose of the other 2, or have a situation where you simply dispose of 1 and then jointly control the Netherbrain, or have situation where you systematically betray all 3 of them.

For me the game currently does offer suitable opportunity to role play an evil aligned (for lack of a better word) character I developed during EA.
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She's an evil Warlock whose patron is a servant of Glasya. A corrupt minor official in BG she's a charlatan ultimately working towards gaining enough favour with her patron to avoid ending up as a lemure when her time comes. Hey maybe she'll even get noticed by Glasya herself and really make it big in hell someday. She came into the pact because of getting caught in an embezzlement caper..she really didn't want to end up in prison and then poverty.

So how does she respond to the story? I haven't worked it all out yet as I haven't played this character yet since full release however...

In terms of the Absolute she isn't going to join because she owes her soul to Glasya, as well her patron, Goddess, and obviously the big man himself Asmodeus doesn't want to see the Elder Brain triumph as that would mean no more souls. Likewise she ain't going to agree to turn into a MF because she's not ready to face hell yet and in her view transforming is the end of life. The girl's got plans. When it comes to Raphael well that's interesting. She could easily play him either way but his ambitions seem to suggest Glasya and her dad would like to see him denied ultimately (after being indulged so as to reveal his full plans first of course, devils do love their schemes).

As for the Chosen they might make good temporary allies ultimately they need to fall so as to defeat the absolute (again its about the supply of souls). Chosen of the Dead Three?...pffft meet the new Chosen of Glasya...ya she likes the sound of that.


So in the larger story, it more or less makes sense for her to follow a "heroic" path but its the reasons, motivations, and methods that distinguish it from the "good". She is free to steal, backstab and betray anyone she likes so long as it still furthers the goal of her patron and goddess. One thing she did without fail in EA was to convince Brynna and Andrick to go attack the Owlbear, (why not play god with these idiots to see what it is like to have that power over someone only to send them to their doom and send their souls to her Goddess?) Like wise decisions like the grove depend on what she feels will get her the most credit from her patron. Lot's of dogooders and of course recent escapees of Avernus. Druids as well have a disturbing attitude towards chaos and we know how devils feel about chaos. On the other hand the Goblins are the epitome of chaos and are definitely working for the enemy. Perhaps saving the Grove will provide opportunities to corrupt it later...it's leader certainly seems a bit distracted and would owe us a favour hehe.

Take a situation like Karlach,,,maybe she kills her because she feels that will please Glasya since Karlach is a traitor to hell...on the other hand maybe Glasya would like to embarrass Zariel and Karlach may prove useful in the short term before ultimately betraying her...there are always heirlings after all.

As for the Emperor well he's nothing but a souless squid and don't get her started on that sanctimonious Astral hatchling ....screw 'em both! Meanwhile this moaning self absorbed Wizard might just prove useful at a particular point in time...

You get the point.

So while this character might be MacroHeroic they will certainly have no end of opportunities to be MicroEvil. Both can be true at the same time and both are consistent with her story and "alignment"

To me, "evil" character isn't character who murders everything cute and nice, and definitely not a murder-hobo, but as was said above, an egotist. Egotist who is cynical, and hopefully intelligent, someone who manipulates, twists and corrupts.

In my eyes, "evil" character would find the way to actually return back to the ranks of the Chosen, and use their plan, take Oryn's place, perhaps, because she seems to be the most aimless and useless member of the group that doesn't DO anything of worth aside of running around and killing people. Objectively, Oryn is a bad villain and a terrible rep for Bhaal cult, because if you look at Amelyssan from TOB, real priestess of Bhaal could be a manipulative, scheming, clever character who would gaslight you into thinking you are with an ally. With Oryn we have a slasher-movie tier antagonist, who uses her limitless power of transformation to get the cheap scare out of you, and nothing more.

Where's my "Oryn turned into Tav, committed crimes, and now good guys think you're a murderer and you need to escape prison and hide and try to prove your innocence" plotline....

Anyway, beside the point, to me evil character would find the way to work with the most immoral elements and benefit from them. If Gortash is as genuine as game tells you he is - why not side with him? Why not let him rule, while I do my cult stuff? If KT wants his babygirl back - let him have her, why railroad me into killing her, it's so pointless when there's so many other innocents to kill (Bhaal is very unreasonable and silly as a deity, as well as Shar).

But most importantly, it's about flavor. It's about you feeling like a bad guy, like a villain, colors tinting. Maybe I don't stay at the cozy inn, and I stay in the sewers or in a crypt or I take over some other bad guy's mansion and squat there. Maybe my companions are not indifferent husks, but actually get corrupted along and we're like this motley crew of villains at this point? I think that's what people want from evil path.


The problem of "logically i'm not 100% good and my actions are selfish (in my head)" is that within the game you are still framed as a hero up until the end. There's no cool presentation to go along with it.
Heck, in Rogue Trader, when you turn heretic, your ship is full of chains, cages and burning flames. I'd want THAT for my Bhaal cultist, not a neat little inn.

100 % agree. For me an "evil" character also in an RPG has Dark Triad Personality Traits, which doesn't mean that person have to be a slaughterer, but e.g. shows a strategic focus on self-interest, lack of empathy for others, indifference to morality, tendencies to manipulate, et cetera pp

And not necessarily all of these character traits together, one more, one less. It depends, on "how" evil a character should be.

I am not going to play an evil run, but I fully support people, who wish to, to get more content for the evil path.

Astarion the Magistrate and his quest for poetic punishment, evil and vice would be perfect for this discussion thread.
What attracted me was I thought "wow someone in this world is going to have a serious discussion about power and vice in medieval times from maybe different angles since Astarion has romance and hugs"
Here about this
The story of the Magistrate is slaughtered. Sort of ghosting and hints. Perfect to show evil and selfishness...

Well thought, I have a romance with an evil character where evil tried and took triumph.
Slaughtered in patch 6, where my character is a frightened victim during a kiss.

I mean there's Wyll, I don't think you can sleep with him, you can romance him sure.


Actually Jahera, Minsc and Minthara weren't last minute companions, they were literally Datamined during the EA days, Halsin however was the only one that wasn't Datamined as a companion, instead of Halsin we would've gotten Helia the Halfling Bard was who was planned and then cut for some reason, Helia was also planned to be an Origin character.

Because there are a finite number of good writers in the world?


“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill

This is the correct quote because the popular one is misattributed to Edmund Burke. Anyway, I do agree that an evil Machiavellian character should be possible to play in this game and come out on top. It's a pity that what is there is unsatisfying.

From a story perspective a possible evil path would be for you to realize the huge power potential behind the Cult of the Absolute, and join it if only to take control of the whole organization. It's quite simple, but it also requires some gameplay advantages to make this path more convincing. For example the tadpole powers could only be unlocked by joining them. That could make up for losing out on companions. In fact, they could make a proper evil path with minimal story changes, just by shifting some of the rewards and powers you get on the normal playthrough. Almost everything is already there. The problem is that they don't dare to keep anything of great value (like the tadpole powers) outside the "default" path.

They could have the best writers in the world, but with EA's mismanagement they won't have great results. I suggest you familiarise yourself with EA's history of ruining studios they acquired. A lot of Bioware employees left because they were sick of unrealistic deadlines and other forms of pressure. They also fired the writers that created some of the best received characters and stories some time ago.


I believe that are several types of evil characters:

1. Selfish, pragmatic, cunning and charismatic evil - often a leader type of character who manages to gather a following of like-minded individuals who bought into their vision of the world and want to support them. They can also be acting completely independently or as a duet with their romantic partner. They mostly care about their own needs and ambitions, they use underhanded methods to achieve their goals, form tactical alliances, don't care much for morality, and want to make their life/lives as best as possible.

2. Chaotic, unpredictable, murderous evil - someone who indulges in carnage, discord and disorder, they might not even have a specific goal in mind or change their goals frequently on a whim. They are impulsive, revel in madness, the more fireworks, blood and death the more enjoyable it is for them. They might consider killing as their artwork and will only briefly ally themselves with someone else if it's needed for their survival or they intend to backstab the other party.

3. Primal, destructive evil - the type of evil that does everything with one goal in mind - total annihilation and desolation. They might use the tactics of the other evil archetypes to further their ultimate goal but they won't cling to anything. They don't do it for their own enjoyment, they don't care about their own future, they only want the void to envelop everything and for life to cease to exist.

Halsin doesn't do that - he sends them on the main road to Baldur's Gate. The Absolute leads the tieflings into the shadowlands. The absolute mind controls Zevlor, promising to restore his status as a Paladin and, enthralled by Daisy The Absolute he decides to take a shortcut. Then to surrender because all of his people would be saved.

You get a bit of this when you save him from the pod and bit more if you talk to his corpse after Orin kills him.

(off topic but it's more proof that Daisy was the absolute - his corpse is still in Daisy mode enjoying life down, down, down by the river)

Interesting. Thanks for the info/ I didn't get these revelations from Zevlor in my 2 PT's (but I also didn't talk to a dead Zevlor) But the normal road to Baldur's Gate, the risen road, was blocked beyond the tollhouse. We knew that, so Halsin would also know that. When we get to the Githyanki patrol, we meet Ellyka. She wants to go to BG also, apparently by that way, but the bridge is destroyed by the dragon. Ellyka ends up dead in the creche Ylek, so she's also on the way to BG through a path that leads into the shadow cursed lands. It looks like this is the only way left to get from the grove to Baldur's gate.

At any rate, Halsin presses us to avoid the SCL at all cost. So he should have done the same with Zevlor and the tioeflings. Oh this story is flawed from so many sides. It seems hopeless to try to puzzle a consistent scenario together.

Nevertheless, in the end, for the victims who fell in the shadows . Was this not a more evil fate than being cut down by a goblin scimitar ? (Remember the Harper getting dragged in the shadows when we meet the patrol that shows the way to the inn ?) Evil/good are not black/white in the game. As it should be. Anyway, I think the "evil path" does have meaning in the game.

OT : I've played one "evil" (well, semi-evil path) as Durge. Destroyting the grove with Minthara and Last light inn after killing Isobel. But I refused Bhaal and saved the world, so all was good in the end. But anyway, this evil path turned out to be the only way for me to save Jaheira. After destroing Last Light Inn, I persuaded her I had nothing to do with it, and she went to my camp. In all the other runs, she gets herself killed attacking Moonrise towers.
So even for Jaheira (and consequently Minsk) the evil path turned out to be the good path.

@Ido58 About Jaheira, after meeting her in front of Moonrise you can ask her to accompany you instead of her harpers, that will add her to your control until you have dealt with Ketheric on the roof and helps a great deal in keeping her alive. I just mention it because I recently saw another post by someone who had the same problem.

Yes it was an more evil fate in the grand scheme Did you play BG2? Ever notice that the evil path has the better result for the citizens of Amn? Go the good path and the shadow thieves rule the city. Go the evil path and both guilds are destroyed and the Shadow Thieves are no longer on the council.

Not good for your soul of course . . .

Yes it was an more evil fate in the grand scheme Did you play BG2? Ever notice that the evil path has the better result for the citizens of Amn? Go the good path and the shadow thieves rule the city. Go the evil path and both guilds are destroyed and the Shadow Thieves are no longer on the council.

Not good for your soul of course . . .

You can do this. (well in a limited way.)

I didn't play BG2. I started BG1, but never got far into it. Somehow I couldn't "immerse".

I also forgot to mention Arabella's parents' fate in this evil/good grove discussion. Suppose you were given the choice between a goblin arrow or "the house of healing". What would you choose ?

Depends on how much you know. If you know that Arabella will be okay you might just choose house of healing despite the extra pain . . .

But, yes, despite the inevitable complaints from fans of evil playthroughs good players are punished in this story. Much more than any other BG game or spiritual successor

I have been a fan of BioWare since before the first Baldur's Gate game even released, and have had several discussions with Mr. Gaider in the past. And I am well aware that EA as a company is and has been very troubled. I despaired when the doctors sold their company to EA.

Still, Dragon Age Inquisition was a pretty good game, and, unlike you, I still have hope that the ship will be turned around by the talented and dedicated staff that they do still have.

I also have hope that Larian will continue to improve and repair some of their glaring mistakes with this game.