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veteran
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OP
veteran
Joined: Oct 2021
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I want to like Wyll. I try to like Wyll. I just don't like Wyll.
It's because he's not intimidating. I'm not intimidated by him, not at all. There's no edge. In fact, it's like all of his edges were intentionally smoothed out. He feels young and naive.
Whereas Lae'zel. Say what you will about her, but I think her character projects hardness and strength, loyalty and aggression. I can believe that the NPC she just jumped in front of is scared of her.
Gale is exactly what he says he is and there's a strength to that. You have a sense that maybe his arrogance is well earned.
See what I mean? Astarion drips with a sense of danger. But not Wyll. Wyll is more of a boyscout grown up to be pack leader.
And since I'm not intimidated by Wyll I can't imagine any of the villains in the game being intimidated by him either.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Oct 2020
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Are you sure about that?
There is other explanation ... since we spend whole EA with entirely different Wyll, we did get used to everyone else, but not this one.
I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings.  Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are!
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2023
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I discovered that I like Wyll's story a whole lot better if I just do as Mizora asks in Act 1.
When you kill Karlach, Wyll is rewarded for his deed with a robe and later, during the tiefling party, he is downcast because he wonders how many other innocents (aka none monstrous devils) he has killed while doing Mizora's bidding. He questions the integrity of himself as a hero while bound to Mizora. The theme of being rewarded for services to the hells is again touched upon when you take him along to the battle with Ketheric and Mizora rewards him with a special blade for the occasion. Freeing him from his pact isn't purely about saving his soul and freeing him from his abuser in this version, it's about him only being able to be the hero he wants to be without devilish gifts empowering him. Much like with Astarion and Gale, it's about relying on his own strength and values.
This gets brought to a last tipping point when the desire for freedom and integrity is directly opposed by the desire to save his father, whom he greatly admires. It's a bit of a shame that the discussion about saving Ulder without Mizora's help isn't fleshed out a bit more. Without Karlach, Wyll also has extremely nice epilogues with lots of stuff to say, and overall, after having him in the party for a bit, I enjoyed some of his more cut throat comments and banter - he could do with a few more of those.
Otoh, when you save Karlach he worries about spoiling the party for everyone, which is a very weird take considering the prejudices the tieflings are facing on a daily basis - and you can't even point this out. Freeing him from his pact is just about devils being mean and how nobody should be enslaved to them. He has basically no dialogue during the epilogue if he and Karlach go to Avernus together, and they added an extra scene during Last Light to diminish his fame as the Blade of Frontiers compared to Karlach's wrestling prowess. That along with the whole Mizora-fan service adds to making him a secondary character in Karlach's story instead of allowing him to shine on his own.
Last edited by Anska; 24/04/24 03:23 PM.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Nov 2020
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I like Wyll, he's got that classic chaotic-good hero doing the wrong things for the right reason thing going on, but I'm not going to pretend that he doesn't also suffer terribly from rewrite-itis. It's pretty obvious that the writers had their favourite characters, who got the bulk of the detail, and characters like Minthara and Wyll (and Helia, who was so underdeveloped she got cut) were left on the shelf.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2021
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I agree will lacks an edge. His story seems fine but something is lacking in the writing and/or VA. I think the first VA was better.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Mar 2024
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I think Wyll is lawful good. Karlach is the poster girl for chaotic good.
(One of the problems is that while Wyll does occasionally show signs of a sense of humour, they are few and far between. Mostly, if you go and talk to him he'll say something obvious about the situation and then say something his dad once told him.
Lae'zel, meanwhile: "Githyanki not need a sense of humour. Githyanki training has left our other five senses sharp enough to detect any enemy.")
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Mar 2024
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I think Wyll seems too pretentious and a bit of a hypocrite.
His "Blade of Frontiers" act feels lame, as if he is not a real character, but a larper pretending to be what they think is a tough guy.
His theatrics during the scene where you first meet him isn't helping at all - when he skewers that poor little goblin, it is like watching an adult beating a small child.
Pick on someone your size you jerk! And if you can't, at least don't show off like you are some great fighter and hero, because you ain't! you're just a looser who thinks he's a tough guy, killing a tiny goblin!
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Mar 2024
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When you first meet him, he gives off more of a young, wild puppy vibe but, just after, the character is meant to be introverted and dignified. His behavior/interpretation become fair and realistic. In a book, we would have long sequences of introspection where we would describe his dilemmas, fears, etc. In a video game, on the other hand, it's auditory and visual. The authors failed to come up with narrative tricks to force Wyll to reveal himself to the player (being surprised by TAV when he doesn't think he's being watched, being too drunk to control himself, meeting a childhood friend, a spell...)
Personally, I don't think always being perfectly realistic in terms of interpretation is a good thing. We lose too much of the emotional connection to fully attach ourselves to the character. The character of Wyll takes too few risks at all levels. Probably an effect of last-minute rewriting.
The strength of the BG3 characters is that you can want some of them as friends (outside of romance) and feel like it's mutual. But without his romance, Wyll remains too distant for me to think that of him. He just remains good company to me. We can't blame him for anything, but I don't get too attached to him either.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Mar 2022
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Wyll.
I like him. He announces his presence at the gate then when your inside the grove you see his heart. I can see your point.
I like his classic hero mold.
His edges are his theatrics so I class him into Bard.
What makes him a power is the power of hell compels him and finding a way to be the hero. He's not meant for everyone but he is compelling in the position he finds himself. In my mind the premise is better than execution but the execution is good.
Seemingly early on, he was chaotic edgy and was rewritten to more Lawful which comes across as neutral, which in the story translates to safe and bland sometimes.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Oct 2023
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To be quite frank its because he comes across as cardboard. He is VERY bland when you listen to him talk or talk to the character. The only time I came to really like Wyll was when I beat the game AS Wyll. He definitely does not feel like a warlock build and more like a Valor Bard or a Swords Bard which I think is the biggest flaw in the character.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2012
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Has it ever been mentioned at all why the original VA was let go? He really did sound a lot more convincing instead of Greg Ellis-ey, which doesn't really suit Wyll. You can hear the difference listening to his voice barks (which remain from his old VA and EA) and his dialogue.
As far as lacking the edge, most definitely. EA Wyll was pretty much the CG warlock template, who (mostly) willingly accepted dangerous, soul-corrupting powers in the name of doing good and shows obvious signs of unbridled hate and spite towards anything threatening innocents from his standpoint. That contrasted quite well with his facade of a fairytale hero man and his dialogue had wit to it. Full game Wyll makes no sense as a level 1 character even with the tadpole given his track record, and tying him to Ravengard for cheap drama was a rather weak writing move, in my opinion.
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member
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member
Joined: Sep 2023
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To be honest I'm not fond of Wyll. Don't actually dislike him but find it difficult to be much more than mildly irritated by him. I've played through several times and I find him more and more annoying every time because I know things in advance that a new player to the game wouldn't. Spoilers I'm kinda set up to find him annoying from the first appearance all swash and no buckle, even on first play my every instinct was to just call him a show off with no substance. Then he lies to you. I played a sorceror and I 'knew' it was sending stone and he got all squirrely etc. So we plodded along with him moralising at me at every turn whilst being a total hypocrite and then Mizora frees him up to tell you how they met.
So he does and I just want to shake him till his teeth rattle for being a complete numptie.
Left in charge of a city having been trained for it all his life to this point. And what does he do?
First female whisper in his bedroom - and we know he's not in the habit of having female company at night don't we? So every alarm bell in his head should have been ringing.
'Come alone' should have been ignored by anyone in that situation, it was an evident trap of some sort.
So instead of being in his guarded and protected citadel, he's off haring into the countryside, minus an escort because of course a Duke's son running around like a tit, on his own, in the middle of the night is NEVER EVER going to be a target for every malcontent in the realm (sigh), and said missing well armed ducal escort could certainly have dealt with some cultists without Mizora's help, at the very least one could have been sent back to the citadel to get reinforcements - there was clearly time for that given Mizora called in judges to sort out his contract before anything kicked off, and they only have to disrupt the ritual not kill everyone there in the first few minutes.
I'm left wondering which family member got all the brains that were so clearly not given to Wyll, and to top it all the idiot is proud of it and can't seem to see he's been set up until hit over the head with it.
When he tells me that tale I just walk off muttering because I find the whole thing so annoyingly stupid - can't blame the pixel person, that particular deal is just plain bad writing but he's the one right there to irritate me.
And of course you know that even if he'd rolled over and gone back to sleep Mizora would have dealt with the cultists on her own anyway, because that was what Zariel sent her to do in the first place, which just puts the cherry on top of the badly put together cake.
Knowing all that after first playthrough makes him even more annoying on subsequent ones. As origin stories go its the worst one out of all the companions, I've never played as him and have no idea if his story makes more sense in that case - somehow I doubt it. It's a shame really, there are occasional hints at something more but that's mostly all you get. He's a victim of some very poor writing and that's what puts me off him really.
Last edited by Bethra; 11/05/24 05:29 PM.
# Justice for Astarion
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Oct 2023
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To be honest I'm not fond of Wyll. Don't actually dislike him but find it difficult to be much more than mildly irritated by him. I've played through several times and I find him more and more annoying every time because I know things in advance that a new player to the game wouldn't. Spoilers I'm kinda set up to find him annoying from the first appearance all swash and no buckle, even on first play my every instinct was to just call him a show off with no substance. Then he lies to you. I played a sorceror and I 'knew' it was sending stone and he got all squirrely etc. So we plodded along with him moralising at me at every turn whilst being a total hypocrite and then Mizora frees him up to tell you how they met.
So he does and I just want to shake him till his teeth rattle for being a complete numptie.
Left in charge of a city having been trained for it all his life to this point. And what does he do?
First female whisper in his bedroom - and we know he's not in the habit of having female company at night don't we? So every alarm bell in his head should have been ringing.
'Come alone' should have been ignored by anyone in that situation, it was an evident trap of some sort.
So instead of being in his guarded and protected citadel, he's off haring into the countryside, minus an escort because of course a Duke's son running around like a tit, on his own, in the middle of the night is NEVER EVER going to be a target for every malcontent in the realm (sigh), and said missing well armed ducal escort could certainly have dealt with some cultists without Mizora's help, at the very least one could have been sent back to the citadel to get reinforcements - there was clearly time for that given Mizora called in judges to sort out his contract before anything kicked off, and they only have to disrupt the ritual not kill everyone there in the first few minutes.
I'm left wondering which family member got all the brains that were so clearly not given to Wyll, and to top it all the idiot is proud of it and can't seem to see he's been set up until hit over the head with it.
When he tells me that tale I just walk off muttering because I find the whole thing so annoyingly stupid - can't blame the pixel person, that particular deal is just plain bad writing but he's the one right there to irritate me.
And of course you know that even if he'd rolled over and gone back to sleep Mizora would have dealt with the cultists on her own anyway, because that was what Zariel sent her to do in the first place, which just puts the cherry on top of the badly put together cake.
Knowing all that after first playthrough makes him even more annoying on subsequent ones. As origin stories go its the worst one out of all the companions, I've never played as him and have no idea if his story makes more sense in that case - somehow I doubt it. It's a shame really, there are occasional hints at something more but that's mostly all you get. He's a victim of some very poor writing and that's what puts me off him really. Well part of that is due to BAD attribute spreads. GOOD GOD does he have bad attributes.
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member
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member
Joined: Jan 2021
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STILL WAITING FOR NEW COMPANION AND CUSTOM PARTY WITHOUT MULTIPLAYER.
BECAUSE WHY FUCKING NOT???
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