Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback I dream of smiling at my beloved (a request for a happy face for Tav in Ascended Astarion's kisses).

Just because you don't understand someone else's triggers doesn't mean they are not real or valid. These new "consensual" expressions can in fact be very triggering, as they are for me, in that they signal to the player that something they see as abusive is actually playful and fun. "Do you even know what PTSD is" is a truly awful thing to say to someone.

I don't think it's that unpopular of an opinion. The mod you mention will be perfect for those that seek non D/S kisses. Mods are honestly the perfect solution to satisfy everyone in this. We just have to accept that Larian wanted to lean into something resembeling D/S in AA kisses, the corrected expressions only confirmes it for me. It sounds like the new animations are perfect for this dynamic. And some have even said you can roleplay as trapped with them as well.

I'm really looking forward to seeing them on my Tav. I knew Larian could pull it off. I have seen the other companions kisses and how well those are handled, someone at Larian knows how to make perfect kisses.

I will probably have that mod installed as well, it's very good. I recommend for everyone looking for more standard romantic kisses.


There is another mod where you can have Astarion kiss you with other companions kiss animations. You should check it out on Nexusmods!

I actually meant well for you or them, but go on as you please. (But the instructions what to write are still there.) Back then, a lot of us asked for the old non-abusive patch 5 kiss for those, who are not into kink.


Yep, there are great mods out there, and there will be definitely more. It's impossible for Larian to please every player. There were quite a lot, who are not into D/s, also like Ladyincognitia - we already asked for the old patch 5 kiss, where there is no abusive behaviour. I think, that would be a good solution for a lot of people.

Beside of that, I am looking forward to the patch, it sounds great, because it seems to be a compromise, which a lot of people can enjoy. Thank you Larian.

Yes! Thank you so much Larian for course-correcting with these improvements! Thank you, thank you.<3 It was so important to many of us.

Honestly, returning to the patch 5 kisses might be the way to go tbh.

It doesn’t need to be said, we already see the route’s narrative as dead dove / dubious consent, so seeing our character smiling gives us the ick factor. Those animations look way to rough and abuse light to make me comfortable so the context is incredibly jarring.

Finally ass in the pants, thank you. There is nothing wrong if people are into non-con. You are free to suggest it. But, to be fair, I don't think it's wise to bring the old facial expressions back, as it harmed too many people. I haven't seen the new ones, but it sounds that there are just some mild improvements and they will work for a lot of players:


I just like to say a thing: There might be people who would like to see (I mean change it into) con-non-con,dub-con or non-con (that's not mine) in the intimate romance scene, but it's absolutely not there. As much as I'd like to ask Larian for a consensual non-con/dub-con, I cannot ask this for the sake of the other players. Sometimes, we need to use our own headcanon for the story.

In a twisted way, it creates dubcon for the *player* by deciding it's not OOC for the *character* when they think it is: the player is not consenting to the scene. Even if you portray the in game avatar as enthusiastic, some people will get the ick. Hence, the easiest fix for the largest amount of people with triggers is probably to (optionally) minimize the D/s. I'm on PC, so I'm not sure what console players have for options mod wise, maybe still none.

There are a vast amount of reactions for players to have in regards to Astarion: can't challenge him Lae'Zel style on who's the sub either lol. Afraid my current Durge would whoop his ass for assuming.

I personally think the turning scene, with AA’s total insistence that Tav/Durge kneel, is pivotal in defining their future relationship and is meant to be the point where the player decides whether their character consents.

Granted, in an ideal world there would be much more extensive and layered discussions. However, the romances are only one aspect of the game and they all contain only so much nuance and content.

I have never felt that there is any vagueness surrounding the fact that Tav/Durge is never going to be an equal partner to AA. The game feels abundantly clear on this. So anyone who nonetheless goes through with becoming his spawn knows what they are signing up for.

If they nonetheless have buyer’s remorse, there are options to break up that include quite a few interesting dialogue lines that cater to different reasons for that choice.

While I won’t say everyone who stays is happy (because everyone’s narrative is personal) I think the majority likely role play that they are and happier expressions fit that.

Well, there are a lot of scenes which gave me the ick, to be honest. Especially the patch 6 Spawn kiss. Or when he is telling Tav, that he loves him in the graveyard scene and Tav is behaving more like Astarion then Astarion himself. I wish I could erase those scenes... also there was a moment with Gale.. terrible (and I do like Gale).

@Silver/

I'd like to add that I've done a bit of research on this topic, and I understand that some people like non-con themes and that this may indeed be an innovation in video games (as a fan of classic RPGs, however, I understand very little about it, and I've only recently read about it, so my judgments on this matter may be unfounded due to my poor knowledge of the material). I think that if there is a demand from the audience, there will probably be more games of this genre in the future, except that I personally wish that authors would mention it in their promotional materials right away to attract their audience and not dumbfound others. I don't see AA scenes as a violation of BDSM etiquette (but then again, a person more knowledgeable on the subject than me could probably speak more intelligently on the subject) because:

1. There is no discussion of this issue. Astarion is sure that Tav wants this. We have no roleplay in which we can ask Astarion why kneeling is necessary, no way to say "My heart, I love you more than life, and more than anything I want to be together with you forever, but why do you think I'm degrading myself by staying with you, no...", no way to open our mind or anything else along those lines. We agree that "we like to degrade ourselves" in the scenario, that's where we sign the consent to D/s in the game. Ascended Astarion is positioned by Larian as a partner for D/s, it is. There's no problem with that for me now, the main thing is that it's agreed upon. On non-con dead dove I will never agree, I respect people who like the genre, but you can't introduce it into the game without warning, and even as the only playthrough option for those who love the character and don't accept the Spawn option. For myself I see D/s as an option for a kind of therapy for Astarion, I've read that people who have experienced severe trauma feel better and feel safer by being in control and being in the role of a dominant partner. I believe my Tav has enough wisdom to realize this, I am "not weak" as they say, I have no trauma, and I can take care of my loved one in this way. It's reasonable.

2. There is no full BDSM in the game, there is no S/M element (sadomasochism, infliction of physical pain), there is only D/s element (dominance-submission). The slap is imitation, a little vampiric "biting" - well my god, Astarion bites regularly, that's nothing at all. So it's safe.

For all those who do not like the non-discussed D\s there is a very good mod:Nightingale's Lord Astarion - Ascended Astarion Alternative Romance . I'm playing with it right now, I really like it. I don't think Astarion needs the D/s lifestyle directly, he cares more about feeling confident that Tav will never leave him or betray him. And all of his lines speak to that. In my Roleplay, I treat him the same way I always have. If Astarion even to the Tav who doesn't love him and "wants freedom" in the finale says that he wants them to live the very best life, then, in my case, he's certainly not going to be upset by a normal romantic kiss or normal communication outside the bedroom.

Astarion has nothing wrong with "etiquette" either, he doesn't do anything wrong. The first time I went through it, I really expected (without any joy about it, though) that there would be this "a" relationship, which can't be mentioned without a spoiler, because I read all sorts of things. I thought I would go through it quickly, bring it to the finale, and then express my anger about it. But that didn't happen. Real, deep, true love happened. This "toxic" reading probably only works if Tav draws a "monster" in their head, chooses the appropriate lines, Astarion feels pain, expresses it through anger, and a vicious cycle of "toxic relationships" ensues. This story is unconvincing, except for those who care about the possibility of a breakup or who are afraid of the usual voice raising, but to me it's completely unconvincing. I don't think it's worth comparing it to RL, there are a lot more lines in RL and a lot more options too, it's a game after all, a game can't be compared to RL. I might as well say that in RL I'm not inclined to run from anyone at all, I'm perfectly capable of standing up for myself and my lover, and that in RL, if someone called my lover by the letter "a", they might be surprised to find that they've chosen the wrong victim.

I was very interested in your comment that you posted before the thread was temporarily closed:


I wonder why the official "good" version was not made really, actually good? Because the "good way" that was chosen as a result reminds me personally more of the Stanley Milgram experiment. But this is a subjective opinion, in general, there is a kind of realism in it, that not everything is good that is called good, so, in general, I liked it, the game in many ways changed my views, gave me new experience and broadened my horizons. The main thing is that the path that Astarion is really good at is a happy one after all. I think AA romance players deserve that.


+1000!!!


Reddit is a public space, and it's a post, not a personal account, no personal details there. When I publish my posts in a public space, they can be referenced by anyone, rated any way they want, and posted if they so choose, anywhere they want. This is the public internet. I'm not calling for any "bullying" of anyone, on the contrary, if someone likes the point of view of the post cited, they are welcome to join in. All I'm saying is that those who like happy faces in their game can thank Larian for it.

Agreeing expressions and smiling faces can only be a positive trigger, which stimulates an agreed-upon romantic narrative in the player's perception. A person can be negatively triggered by scenes of pain, and there appropriate facial expressions, but not by scenes of agreement and smiling. No one smiles in a situation that can trigger PTSD. You can read more about this - there are quite a few books or articles on the subject on the internet.

There's no better way to explain it than you just did.

These kisses are a continuation of the scene of Tav's transformation into a spawn. In that scene, you have the option of refusing to sit on your knees if you find such treatment humiliating and unacceptable. There's nothing new in what he's doing. In all the previous scenes when Astarion bit Tav, for example, Tav had satisfied faces, as in the new kisses. In the bed scene, AA was biting Tav, and Tav was satisfied. Bites are definitely painful, but since it was an intimate scene, no one resented Tav enjoying the pain. So why should it be any different in a kiss? Even the bed scene with Astarion in Act 1 was exactly the same. By changing the faces to happy ones, Larian is just making his narrative more consistent.

When I kneeled in the spawn transformation scene, I only did it because I chose to kneel myself, and in the kiss, my character does it because he's afraid. In the transformation scene, I chose the dialog "Oh, come on. Let it hurt," to have Astarion grab Tav by the neck, and during the kiss.... Is Tav afraid of that? In the dev notes it says AA and Tav are both enjoying it. Tav wasn't scared and resentful, and AA didn't revel in Tav's fear. Tav had a choice. That was the case until patch 6, because expressing fear definitely carries a context of sadism and violence. And it's not something you can get over when you've been dealing with a different narrative for six months. He doesn't force you to get on your knees in front of him by intimidating you. He does it playfully, he seduces, but in no way intimidates Tav. In the scene of transformation into a spawn, Tav sits on his knees not because of fear. This is a scene of seduction, not coercion. Tav also has the option to decline if the player finds it humiliating and offensive. Tav can refuse and face no consequences, AA will do nothing.

If the player agrees to kneel, then they are agreeing to that relationship dynamic.

Based on the whole context, these kisses can only have a voluntary dynamic. Otherwise, you should just give up your relationship with AA.

After ascension you have the option to break up with AA during the dialog at night, there is an option to break up in the transformation scene. In the spawn route there is no opportunity to break up in the graveyard scene, for example. I think the game gives you plenty of chances to leave AA.

(Content warning for discussions of triggers)

(Content warning for discussions of triggers)

This is why I made my post that legal consent is not the same as a negotiated kink. Vice versa: lack of consent is not necessarily the same as under negotiated kink. However, Astarion's approach of do first and ask for forgiveness later would not be appreciated from a partner in real life. It's neither "safe" nor "sane" -- it's a video game playing with an idea to be, I suspect, "sexy". However, I will assume no one is using AA as a guide on how to be a Dom.

I love Tav's face in patch 6 when they offer to bite themselves AA, like all the nights before but now after shaking with fear and offense. They were already chillin.
Once the Valentine's Day added animations ended right away everything fell into place.


It's like slaughtering a grove, getting into a romance with Mintara, and then asking for kisses where you're in discomfort and triggered by her. When the grove is 7k.


Yes, agreed.

Relocking this thread for review having received more complaints. Come on, folks, we should be able to have friendly discussions even when we disagree.


EDIT: I am going to request a second opinion on whether to reopen this thread, after yet more violations of forum rules and failure to discuss constructively and respectfully.