Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Feedback on replayability and Next larian game

Before game launched i was worried that because it focused on cinematics it might shorten the overall lenght of the story and the game because cinematics are expensive and labor intensive to make. It did, game is quite short and max level is 12 yet we keep playing the game again and again. So once you know the story what makes us replay the game over and over again ?

To me it seems to be combination of few things, combat and DnD spells + level progression and difficult to figure out item combinations. Combat has been very well made, all the fights are different from eachothers and offer different challenges and there is lot of very nice combats. Also spells and melee weapon actions are very satisfying when you use them, for example swinging 2hand heavy weapon looks like the weapon is heavy and the hitting effect and sound is nice. But combats are little bit too easy for veteran players and thats why i would like to have option in difficulty settings where number of enemies could be increased little bit to increase difficulty, maybe the extra exp problem could be solved easily so that extra enemies that you get using this option, doesnt provide any experience so character progression speed stays the same and you wont be lvl 12 at kethric.
And special thanks to those too who designed the items, all the hidden difficult to figure out item sets is making replayability so so much more fun, this is pure design skill.

For your next game im a bit worried because a lot of the fun things that make BG3 so replayable, combat, these types of itemsets, dnd spells and level progression are all there because of this game is based on DnD ruleset, and afaik you wanted your next game not to use that ruleset because it was so difficult to make the combat using it, i think Sven said something about DnD doesnt turn into game very easily. Another thing Sven said just before launch, he warned us about how difficult the game is on Tactician mode.. while now we know even honor mode is very easy, when you combine these 2 things lead guy has said, it seems that he might not understand combat very well and he might not understand how important role DnD type of combat, items and spells play in making BG3 so fun and especially replayable. While you can design other types of combats and spells and level progression, BG3's DnD system is by far superior to anything that has been seen in these types of games so far and im worried if you didnt realize that.
You could make 10 games using this DnD ruleset and still we wouldnt get bored to the combat and level progression (refreshments to level progression can be made via items just like in bg3 items can be designed in specific builds to refresh the build's feel, if you take it far you can basically turn some class into something new just by giving it few items that boost exactly right things and spells) Not to mention the benefits of reusing the design, no need to spend so much development on spells and level progression, that allows you to spend the time and money to design something more like higher level cap or something like "mythic power" system as in wotr that you can basically invent completely by yourself. I understand im late with this feedback as next game is on the way but just hoping you consider more DnD games in the future too.

Reason I want to play a new game over again is to try out a different class/subclass and have at least tried every possible spell at least once to see what you can do with them in most unexpected way, along with that comes to see the exclusive dialogues related to said class or race and how you might end up on a different permutation I might have never had before, I know there is still a few of them I 've never taken myself into yet and my spare time to play the game is running away.

After having grown fond of certain characters, naturally curios to experience their dialogues from every possible angle as well, as simple as that for me.

I don't know, I don't consider 100+ campaigns to be short. There are very few RPGs that reach that length, and compared to some other titles, BG3 repeats itself very little.


I suspect that the only sensible way to "increase difficulty" would be to balance the game better (or balance it toward tactical challenge, rather than "whatever you do, you will be fine"). That would made combat more interesting to replay with variety of setups. In addition, BG3 offers a wide variety of choices, but if some of those choices were locked behind player choices (like keep speaking to animals, and speak to dead available only for those who invested in those skills, rather than handing them to everyone willy-nilly) that would also made each playthrough more distinct and insteresting.

Mostly... The different dialogue options available to different classes, races and skills.

They can provide alternate ways to interact with the story. More so if choices have actual consequences (This tends to not be much of a thing in BG3 though...)


Ehh... None of that is specific to DnD. Heck, it can be argued that Larian adhering to DnD actually made these things WORSE than if they had their own systems.

The turn based combat is nothing new. It's actually staple to the genre. Larian's prior game, DoS2 also had plenty of interesting encounters. Though, hopefully they've learned that the crappy armour system from DoS2 is not good or fun design.

Unique items are also nothing new. Again, another staple of the genre. Games like Pillars of Eternity (1+2) as well as Larian's prior titles (Divinity 1+2) have plenty of cool and interesting magical items to create builds around (Even more so DoS2 where mod support allowed for a number of mods to be created that added even more magical items, incorporated in the base game's "Treasure Hunt" style where they were hidden about the game making exploration fun and interesting). With Pillars Soulbound items being the most interesting, providing you with tasks to complete to upgrade them into more powerful versions.

Spells are nothing new. DnD spells aren't unique in their creativity, especially BG3's hamstrung versions (Because of trying to translate DnD mechanics into a video game, many spells simply are garbage compared to their TT iterations). Larian's prior title DoS2 had plenty of cool and interesting spells and also additionally, plenty of cool and interesting interactions because of their surfaces fetish (Many more surface interactions and of course the Blessed and Cursed modifiers). While I'd say that honestly Pillars of Eternity 2 had way more interesting spells (And mechanics with the innate Spellshaping ability) than BG3, with exception of the OPness that was the Toilet Combo for late game Wizards (Pull of Eora + Stacked persistent AoE damage spells like Wall of Flame, Ninaguath's Freezing Pillar, Meteor Shower, Storm of Holy Fire etc) which basically trivialized every single combat by constantly pulling and slowing enemies into the damage.

Level progression in BG3 isn't unique either. Nor would I consider it to be a particularly good iteration. Personally, I think DoS2's abilities are more interesting than the 5e's Feats (Even more so when you consider just how good ASI is in DnD... Getting +2 in a stat for +1 on EVERY SINGLE ROLL that uses that stat is ridiculously good). DoS2's skill increases are also interesting with their passive bonuses on top of their ability unlocking. While I also think that Pillars of Eternity's attributes are the best in the genre because ALL of them are useful for ALL characters making for more depth to character building.

The one caveat I have with PoE's attributes, is their names and thus associated characteristics. For example, my Wizard stacked Might to make her spells more powerful... But this meant she was called upon to do feats of strength like throwing herself into walls to smash them down, or ripping doors open. While my Barbarian stacked Intellect to make his cleaves hit in a wider area allowing for tons of AoE damage as he's whacking away in the middle of a pile of bad guys... But this meant the dumb "I hit it with my axe" character was always the one providing knowledge insights...


Honestly, I'd argue that BG3's DnD system isn't even on par with prior DnD systems, let alone many non-DnD systems.

BG3's watered down version of DnD (Of 5e DnD no less, the more watered down edition of DnD itself...) is not good. There's so much depth and creativity that is just lacking in BG3's systems as well as plenty of things made stupidly powerful for no reason.


The level cap was done specifically BECAUSE of the DnD systems. More accurately, because "Higher level spells and abilities from DnD don't translate very well into a video game" that is the reason why the levels in BG3 were capped to 10 (Later upped to 12). Continuing to use DnD systems won't suddenly make it more viable to include the higher levels, it will continue to have the issue of higher level spells and abilities simply not meshing well with a video game and thus will continue to need either capping of levels or more deviation from the DnD systems itself.

Something like "Mythic Power" is a curious thing to wish for when praising DnD systems, because it is outright ignoring DnD systems and being designed as an independent thing. If you think that Mythic Power was fun and interesting design, then you're showing that non-DnD systems can also be fun and interesting design.


Honestly... Most other games in the genre already add additional enemies with higher difficulties. Owlcat's games all do this (Kingmaker, WotR, Rogue Trader), if I recall correctly Divinity did this, as well as Pillars of Eternity.

As far as experience goes... I'm personally of the mindset of wanting experience to be removed from combat altogether. As well as other things like skill usage and side quests. I'd really love to see games put experience entirely into the main story.

This way, you have more freedom in how you approach the game. You don't have to run around killing every enemy and doing every little quest and ensuring you do maximum skill checks simply because you need to suck up all the experience possible. Thus you can do things like sneak past combat encounters, bypass skill checks using creative methods, do only quests that it makes sense for your roleplay (I.e. No saving people on a Chaotic Evil playthrough or no theiving/murder on a Lawful Good playthrough)

It also would provide more freedom in game design too. You can add in more content, more (Potential) enemies, more methods of solving problems, all without having to worry about balancing experience gains or people over/under leveling depending on how they play the game.

In addition, you can more easily tie increases in power to the story itself. If you perform a heroic deed in the story, you get a level up as a result. Some crazy shenans happen and you absorb some magical power, a level up. This provides a better narrative to your rise in power than "I killed some rats... Now I can summon God to smite my enemies!"

Regarding the difficulty, the current trend is to solo honour mode. It's not difficult at all if you're playing a party of four, as intended.

I've watched streamers who are terrible at the game walk through honour mode. Sure, they use more resources than someone who is good at the game, but resources are nearly endless. This is a fine design for a regular mode, but not the most difficult.

A big part of the problem is that the game is designed for the player to win. The AI should ultimately learn from players on higher difficulties and use that learning to win against the player. Create a real challenge.

I share the OPs views and think that the D&D ruleset and the FR setting were a big leg up here. The fact that these systems and this lore exist somewhere outside of the cRPG provides an incentive to play the game as a way of learning how to play Dungeons & Dragons. Sure D&D has it's flaws & limitation, and I'm sure there are a million ways to bag on the Forgotten Realms for being the catch-all setting that it is, but to me that's a huge part of the appeal.

It's draw and a motivator for me to try different things, again and again, since the xp/knowledge gained has those extra applications outside the game. In other words, play BG to learn how D&D works.

I also think having some of this stuff set in stone probably worked as a moderating influence, just to constrain some of the wilder ideas in favor of continuity and coherence, though that's always a double edged sword. Less likely to innovate the underlying mechanics going that route, but the upside is that more people can hit the ground running, since the basics are already familiar. This necessarily makes the thing more lego or megabloks than some bespoke Lincoln Log dollhouse, so perhaps not quite as cool as it might be otherwise in the contours, but at least it has that solid foundation. Something to build on where we at least know all the pieces can reliably fit together.

To me the obvious way to increase replay for BG3 would have been additional companions and a larger party. Also adjustments to the way the camp works, particularly at higher difficulty settings.

More art and voice assets for the custom Tav just for those subtle aesthetic variations. But mostly I think they just need more recruitable companions. There are so many characters we meet along the way you might have worked, I'm surprised we didn't get something like that for the capper. All those NPCs that can join the party temporarily, and where you feel kinda bummed when they die. Some of the villains we have to dispatch along the way, but then sorta wish I could have just persuaded them to come over to our side instead. I think it's interesting how many characters they planned to be recruitable initially and then backed way off. I mean I get it, having Ketheric around might have been problematic, but then we got Isobel just chillin' in camp for like half the game and she'd have worked for sure. But then what about Marcus? To me that's where they sorta dropped the ball. All the instances where they tease that we might team up with a villain, but then we just get left holding the bag. It happens way to many times where you're thinking ok lets team up, but then they just betray you again immediately. I could have used some more Yoshimos that stick around for a while.

Jaheira did a lot of heavy lifting for me to make the second half of this game feel worthwhile. As soon as she came on board my feelings toward BG3 shifted cause she got a deep hook in for the legacy that I really enjoyed. I think they could have done a bit more with that. I'm still salty that Viconia gave us the cold shoulder this time around! lol But in general I feel like if the character joins the party temporarily they might as well be recruitable for the long haul. If they're just hanging around anyway like Barcus or Isobel. I still think anyone from the first act would have worked, like literally any of those Tiefs or a couple select Goblins to bring on board. They didn't include enough companions to have a reputation system that held much water. There a couple party breaks but they feel sorta arbitrary, like oh you did the wrong thing so now I'm out. Whereas I feel like in BG it'd be nice to have more companions who are at each others throats, but drawing that out more with companion variety. I think they needed a second tier of recruitable companion, Non-Origin, but drawing from the pool of existing game characters. I don't think Hirelings work very well the way they're presented. More recruitable companions from the bit characters would have been a reason to play and play again. They could be limited to 3 per run, similar to the Wither's zombies, or something like that with a camp cap on the total, but some more flexibility in choosing who gets to hang out with us at camp. BG1 was pick 6 out of a couple dozen, this might be pick 3 out of a hundred, so you'd get a lot more potential combinations. I think party comp variety is the trick to replay in a BG game. That's the thing that brings me back at any rate.

For spells like Find Familiar, Summon Monster whatever, instead of random monsters from a table, to create a unique look and name them. Instead of Lupus the White Wolf, maybe I want a Greywolf the Grey Wolf. Instead of Ursus the Brown bear we might get Yogi the Brown Bear. Perhaps it's a Green Djinni instead of a Blue Djinni, that sort of thing. You get the idea. Name your Cambion more or less. Just that idea of and create a unique look like we get to do for the Dream Guardian, with some options there. A lot could be gained from a color palette. Maybe for the animal companions we get some choices for the style of barding they're going to wear at higher levels, but even just choosing a coat color would be a reason. If we get to transform into an Owlbear maybe we can choose the plumage colors, so Big Bird can have a different vibe for each Druid on offer.

Similarly for Animate Dead, maybe we get unique zombies based on the look of whoever is being raised, or Skeletons with that same sorta deal going on. You know, where they still have their old name and are wearing those old duds. Or perhaps we can play dress up with our Skeletons to give them some flare once they're raised up. Thinking about the dudes we meet in the Dank Tomb, how much fun it might be if we got skeletons with different class abilities or weapons, and then a choose a color. The Red Skeleton Warrior with a different helmet, vs the Blue Skeleton Wizard with a cool robe. Maybe I can hand the skeleton a torch and call him Candlekeeper. That sort of thing.

How much do I really need to make a BG playthrough feel unique? Sometimes not very much. It could be as simple as yet another Draconic Sorcerer, but this time the purple dragon robes or the orange dragon robes. Instead of a Sword & Board fighter with Sword A and Shield B, this time I'll try them with Sword X and Shield Y. Lots of character builds are just an excuse to use a different item or kit out in a slightly different way, use some random amulet or a pair of gloves we find along the way. When that happens, I don't need a whole lot. Some new barks and new haircut often does the trick. A color change for the portrait would also be nice though!

Agree completely re more recruitable companions. So many interesting NPC’s would have been fun to recruit even if they had only been available for side quests etc.

I always thought it would have been cool to recruit the imprisoned Goblin who refused to become part of the Absolute Cult.