Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Larian, please ensure you don’t take away player agency with AA in patch 7

Plenty of us think the patch 6 ascended Astarion kiss animations were very appropriate for the story being told and many of us planned characters knowing we weren’t going for a happy ending.

When the kisses are changed in patch 7, I’d like to request a way to have the old patch 6 version of the kisses via branching dialogue option flags, especially if the final version of the kiss isn’t completely neutral.

A positive / happy kiss would feel highly inappropriate to me given the general roughness of the kisses and the established abusive behavior of Astarion in some dialogue options. The old kisses adequately reflect a character who feels trapped in a relationship after being turned.

Alternatively, going back to the drawing board and making the kisses less “performative” (e.g. BDSMy) and instead more “theatric” (e.g. Wyll) would be another reasonable compromise.

Isn't there a similar thread already?

I don’t think so, the other threads are about wanting the animations to change. Now that they are changing, this is about requesting ways to have access to the original ones in patch 7.

I want Astarion to be left alone already. Perhaps when the patch is released, you will still disagree with my vision of the situation, but I still advise you to wait for the patch to be released, see what's there, and then express your wishes.

I think if you’re perfectly happy with the current animations, you should be able to keep them without mods. I’ve seen some of the new animations and they’re definitely too positive from my PoV.

In patch 6 there was a problem that Tav's facial expressions left no room for imagination, the relationship only seemed toxic, although before patch 6 we could see the story in different shades.
But I understand that patch 6 was in the game for a long time, someone got attached to the kisses of patch 6, and wants the ability to see only them without any smiles. The choice, for example, in dialogue would help everyone, but will Larian go for it, that is the question. If they do, then other players may also demand to make different options for their love interests, Gale, Shadowheart ... But if suddenly Larian listen to you, so that there is a choice how to kiss Tav, in the transformation scene to decide this, for example, I will be happy for you. I don't see a problem if there is a choice. Well, except that other players will start asking for the same function for other characters.
Sorry for my language, I use Google Translate

Srr but where did you get the statistics to call your or others opinion plenty or not? Isn't it rude to assign to your side "the many"? There is no official statistics from Larian about how many people chose ascension in romance and how many people enjoy ir or roleplay as you, as I know. But I know that many (maybe not the plenty) of people asked Larian to change the kisses and Larian listened to it. So is the point that enough of players doesn't enjoy such RP and it's reason to change it. As was said from illeaillas-san, it's little chances that Larian will make us chose. Cause if they will it won't be fair to do this only to AA and I agree with it cause I'm too have many plots with spawn, for example and I know much people with same plots. Larian need to do what is actual for players. And as I said before, this reaction from Tav is more prefereable from active players.

As for the part of 'abusive behavior', Larian really need either to change kisses of AA at all or to change reactions from Tav. I'm will be okay if my Tav reacted positively with him cause it would be fit such as game between hers and AA.

Patch 7 animations, now that I've seen them and really thought about it, feel like a more refined version of Patch 6 to me, albeit with Tav being *really* enthusiastic about choking. It's interesting what everyone sees in it. They're highly unsettling in a subtle and much more nuanced way, while not necessarily giving the impression that's it's the kink side of things that bothers Tav, kneeling aside. The biting is especially interesting -- but not for the reason someone might think. As soon as Astarion closes his eyes, Tav slips into the most fearful expressions in the set. When Astarion looks directly at Tav, we see smirks, confidence. One could almost think Tav is hiding their unease from Astarion. That's just me, though.

There is exactly the same thread - it got locked, like most of the other threads about AA kissing animations, because people got pretty toxic. I can tell you, without being a divination wizard, that this thread will go down the same route once the other AA ( 'his romance is wholesome' ) fan crowd discovers this thread and the back and forth starts again.

Some of us have already seen it. And I'm as little interested in this one as I was in the other one. Only reason I felt I had to speak out in the other thread was that some of the comments on there was so derogatory to some of the other members in here that I like and have come to know. I really hope you are wrong about this one becoming toxic as well, it's really not nice to talk with other members in a toxic thread.

As for the animations I have said before that I hope everyone gets to see and judge them, as they are subject to player imagination. I do trust Celesti4 and illeaillas-san judgement though so I'm personally looking forward to see the change.

I know this thread will be locked soon, but if the issue with the Patch 6 kisses was that they imposed an emotion on Tav/Durge, then the new Patch 7 kisses not only impose an emotion but also introduce other themes on Tav/Durge that the player might not expect or want in their game. Perhaps the kisses were a bad idea altogether and should have been less extreme from the outset?

We have all been giving our feedback for 6 months, the threads are over 50 pages long, there have been a lot of different suggestions and feedbacks in Larian's Discord channel as well and there have been open polls among players that have shown what the majority (ca. 90%) want or don't want to see. As much as I wish everyone to be happy, Larian has decided to mildly change the scenes and probably won't keep the old facial expressions due to a reason, you may or may not read below. If there isn't already a mod, I would suggest to ask a modder to keep the facial expressons. A lot of people, who liked the romantic patch 5 or release kiss also have to rely on a mod, though a lot of people have asked for keeping it in along side with the new kisses.
The kisses were intended as a gift for Valentine's Day ("love is in the air", at least, the majority thought Larian wanted to show love and happiness and not hatred/violence and sadness), so there is also the opinion as to whether Larian intended the kisses to be a kink scene, as the previous scenes were always consensual before, which unfortunately failed and accidentally took the scene in a completely different direction that may not have been intended. At least that was also the opinion of a game site that reported on it at the time. Larian is changing the facial expressions now, also of others, and didn't make a statement on this, therefore, nobody knows, if it was just a poorly done kink kiss for Valentine's day to make the majority of players happy (survey) - and they are correcting and improving them now - or a depiction of SA.

*** WARNING: sensitive content (may contain a discussion of violence, abuse, SA related to a BG3 scene) this content might not be suitable for all audiences. Trigger warning***


Thank you Silver and illeaillas-san for the description of the scenes. Also others have stated, that the impovements are done carefully, so I think it's a very good compromise and I think Larian did a great job on this. And yes, the others are right, the other thread about this topic was already locked.

I also saw the new expressions in kisses with AA.
I like them a lot and I have already expressed my gratitude for them, but it must be said that the TAV is not always and constantly happy. 90% of the expressions in kisses are neutral. In the kneeling kiss the TAV almost never smiles, except on two occasions. This thing about the new expressions, in my opinion, is to be seen and played with your own TAV, before having a real judgment. As Silver and Illeaillas have already written, I also think the new expressions are interpretable.
I don't want to say that you shouldn't ask if it is possible to still have the expressions in patch 6. But I recommend you to wait, to see and play for yourself to have a clearer opinion on the matter.

Yes, this. Having seen the new expressions, I do not recognize my Tav in them.
The old ones actually felt more neutral to me in that regard (I could imagine different reasons for my characters to look confused or unsettled), but these new ones look like they were meant only for one character, and feel very immersion breaking to see on any other.
They definitely don't look like a neutral middle ground that leaves room for the player's imagination, and as the issue with Patch 6 for many players was just that too, I fully support the request to keep the Patch 6 facial expressions available for those of us who would prefer them for our characters.

For the record, I’m keeping an eye on this thread.

To anyone who’d like to have this thread stay unlocked: Do not belittle any opinion; do not lash out at all.

Given this topic’s history, the mod team isn’t inclined to be patient. But the fate of this thread is not yet written; it rests at your collective fingertips.

Yeah please change those overly exaggerated horror face kisses. They look ridiculous (I'm not overly fond of the overly exaggerated expressions on Tav/Durge's face most of the time and these kisses are like a prime example of how cartoony they can look)

The kisses themselves are extremely silly in that Tav/Durge has this overly exaggerated cartoony horror look on their face, goes to smiling for a quick second, then back to the clown horror face. It makes my PC look ridiculous especially when every kiss is some variation of this. It takes me out so bad I had to use a stoic expression mod because it's just way way too exaggerated.

I'm not sure why the expressions weren't more neutral from the start to avoid a lot of this to begin with.

Edited because yeah sorry moderator.

My brief contribution to this thread: I don't think the updated kisses leave room for interpretation. I believe they are clearly depicting a Tav that's besides themselves to be in that situation, no matter what. It unsettles me a bit, more than the original kisses ever did, and have expressed as much in the beta feedback thread. Not because Tav is happy, but what they're happy at, as Astarion's animations have remained unchanged and what he's doing and any possible reaction Tav could have comes with its own set of implications.
As others have said, this can hinder some people's roleplay (mine, for example) as much as the previous kisses did for others.

As I've said before: the worst offenders are the orgasmic face at the throat grab (or that kiss in general) and the face Tav makes after being slapped. I'd much, much prefer milder expressions like the one in the gif Larian showed in that community update, where Tav is raising an eyebrow but seems playful enough.

The kisses requested by the player are meant for consent and pleasure

As the script says, for the player when he chooses roughly, it's enjoyment.
Kinda like everyone saw their Tav in that scene when everything was pressed "yes" and "rougher".
No sadness or discomfort was intended.

It's not very nice when players felt their character's enjoyment of certain actions, probably felt by themselves, adds the option of discomfort and fear, kind of messing up that feeling.
Even neutrality in this case could be seen as a poke at that sense of pleasures.
That's why the game asks so many times beforehand if we want to do it, and gives us the option to break up afterwards as well.

Because it's a fantasy story for fun to play, entertainment, not a simulation of abuse and discomfort by intimate things. The description of the romantic scene clearly shows.
The player feels it, if this is mixed with the fear option it will lead to the same thing that patch 6 brought about.

It's pretty sloppy overall.
Some people have a trigger for a sharp neck grab, on the night of the turn they could all set this moment up. That's been taken care of.
Why someone decided to add kinks on Valentine's Day so sloppily is already a mystery.

I don't mind if Larian add dialogue for Tav, who is confused and worried about the night and what happened. Or dialogue after Karlach's reaction for example.

But intimacy should be left in the mood that it was on release and in the original script. Here

I can see as a solution to add:

- gently

- roughly

As already perfectly realised during the night of the turn.
Then a gentle kiss will be standard, and a player who doesn't desire roughness will feel comfortable.

I thought it was believable. Tav/Durge asks "Could I kiss you?" they don't say "Please tell me to kneel and grab my throat". It made sense for them to be taken aback by that, especially if someone is playing a character that feels trapped after being turned, like the OP said. In the romance scene with AA, Tav/Durge looks uncertain too, much closer to the old kiss expressions than the new ones. (Just to be clear, I'm happy for the new faces to be added, I just don't agree the old ones should be removed completely or that they didn't make sense.)


I feel exactly the same way.

Immediately over the line…
Expressing your opinion this way implies that anyone who disagrees with you is stupid. Not ok.

This forum is to discuss the game, not the people playing it. Not ok.

This isn’t helping calm the dicourse down, right after I asked for caution. Not ok.