Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback A Night With Mizora

Wanted to start a chat about PATCH 7 changes to Companion reactions to Tav's night with Mizora, my comments are about changes to Astarion's reaction, however I am also eager to know do other companions have new reactions? Is Halsin now the only romanced companion that will tolerate Tav's dance with Mizora?

I have been watching Patch 7 videos on Youtube, eager to see the changes (happy to be spoiled) and I came across a reveal of Spawn Astarion's new reaction if your Tav has a one night stand with Mizora.

CORRECTION: I'm told below that Spawn Astarion never had a reaction before Patch 7. In my playthrough months ago I did get a cut scene where Spawn Astarion comes in on Tav and Mizora, Mizora leaves and then it jumped to where we were in the game before long rest and Wyll gave me a lecture and Astarion said nothing. I guessed my game had glitched but I'm told that this is because Spawn Astarion didn't have a reaction cut scene in place. I had seen the Ascended reaction on youtube and guessed it was the reaction I missed. So to be clear, Patch 7 includes new content not changed content for Spawn Astarion. My thoughts on that reaction below given this new information are unchanged and I still have the same questions regarding other companions if there are new reactions for them too?

I just wanted to share with you all that I don't like the changes, to me the original reaction rang true to Astarion's character and made a lot of sense for a Vampire who's morality is naturally different ( but that just could just be how I see vampires ). I know my opinion on this change is likely to be in the minority, a lot of romancers want to feel rewarded for being loyal and don't have a polyamory romance with Halsin etc... and can be a little judge-y dare I say, towards others who do romance Halsin as well.

I personally don't feel the need to put human limited lifetime morals onto a vampire existence. Astarion (all things going well), will outlive their Tav who will eventually grow old and become rather boring (unless your Tav ascends him and agrees to become his Consort).

To my mind Astarion's original reaction was so him, he teases Tav about it and wants the juicy details, he is not threatened or bothered as he is confident of their relationship and Tav's commitment. Sex isn't confused with Love.

When I did my Spawn playthrough I chose not to sleep with the Drow twins because it clearly made him uncomfortable. I interpreted his discomfort though not to be about Tav wanting sex with the Twins but more to do with the fact that he didn't want sex, period, as he is healing from 100s years of using sex (not by choice), to serve someone else, his feelings be dammed, so taking a break from sex was him reclaiming himself, reclaiming his body. Not a judgment on Tav's commitment to their relationship or putting his current feelings about sex onto Tav.

When you stand up for him with Araj, he confesses his original intentions were to manipulate Tav through sex, and that he now has feelings for Tav and is now free to choose, free to say no.

My point is that in my playthrough, Tav never felt judged by Astarion for wanting to experience life, afterall Astarion has had 100s of lovers, and will live long after Tav is dead. My Tav had a polyamory relationship with Haslin, a one night stand with Mizora and a sexy encounter with Harleep and finishes the game, hand in hand with Spawn Astarion, on a mission to find him a way for him to be in the Sun again.

If anyone out there can hear my plea and can publish a mod that will give me the original Spawn dialogue and reaction to the night with Mizora, I'll be very grateful, and I am pretty sure I won't be the only Spawn Astarion romancer out there that will appreciate you.

I enjoy both Spawn and Ascended storylines, I think Astarion is a lot of fun either path and if you want to show your loyalty and devotion to him by turning down all other offers you can easily do that, for me, this is fantasy, and my vampire wants Tav to enjoy what life has to offer as long as they are loyal. And trust me, they will never stray too far, they would never dream of doing that

Please be kind in your comments if you disagree. I'd be interested to know if Shadowheart still tolerates the indescretion with Mizora too?

Shadowheart also allows the night with Mizora, as well.

Spawn Astarion has never reacted to Mizora at all, it just straight up skipped his dialogue because of, to my understanding, miscommunication in Larian. It wasn't there, but the bug was notified, so they added it in now. The dialogue you are talking about has always been exclusive to AA, it hasn't played for Spawn at any point.

It's also worth noting that I don't think they're demeaning people who choose to romance Halsin- because there's a pretty vital difference between polyamory and cheating. With Halsin, you ask for his consent, with Mizora, you don't. It's a betrayal, and I think that's what Astarion is hurt over there.

I take your point about not asking consent first, it isn't offered as an option however, otherwise I would choose that, absolutely.

For me, and I know I'm likely to be in the minority here, the original reaction rang true to the rogue vampire my Tav came to know and love. I'm not wanting Larian to change this development (it does feels to me like patched in morality like the patch 6 kisses were), I'm just hoping for a Mod that will give me the roleplay I want and enjoyed with my Tav on earlier playthrough.

It did glitch for me too, Astarion walked in, Mizora out and then we suddenly teleported to where we were before we went to bed. Wyll gave me a lecture though.

I suppose in my head, I had seen the full dialogue on youtube and that became cannon for me, guessing my game just had a glitch, not knowing others had this glitch too.

Does Shadowheart still allow the night with Mizora though in Patch 7?

Again, I need to make it clear- The supposed original reaction was never Spawn's original reaction. It only played for AA, and it still does. Spawn never played anything. Now it does. The way the script is set up, the flag had always been set so it only plays for AA, it's not a glitch in the strict sense of the word since the code played out exactly as intended. Although it's of course your right to want a mod to change his reaction, it's worth saying that Larian hasn't changed previously existing content, but added missing content instead.

Noted it is not a change but added content. Thank you.

No, this reaction fits UA perfectly. And honestly, it should have been there from the start. AA and UA are two different paths for a reason. Larian already made a huge mistake when they left the same approvals for both AA and UA, it looks sooooooo incredibly weird and waters down the arcs of both characters. I'm glad that they've made a point to show their differences in this scene at least.

Hope I didn't come across as hostile, OP. I actually get your point of view- while most parts of AA's dialogue struck me as very unlike Spawn and thus not very apt to work for both paths, the attitude towards it in and of itself I didn't think was too out there for the morality of a vampire, especially one we've been shown to not care that much about sex in a relationship.

jinetemoranco: I appreciated your advice, I've updated my comment to reflect that information.

Rote 90: I don't take issue with others wanting a dfferent reaction to me for Spawn Astarion and a clear difference in Spawn and Ascended paths, I do think I am in the minority, and, I'm not asking Larian change it.

For me however it doesn't ring true to his character, Spawn or Ascended, for me Astarion is a loveable rogue that even when choosing the Spawn path hasn't lost his flirtatious, liberated and dangerous nature and wouldn't break up with Tav over a night of sexual adventure with Mizora. I don't like that Tav can't ask Astarion about it first, that gave me the ick. To me however this reaction from Spawn Astarion is very human and lacks the wisdom a creature of 200 + years under their belt would have.

He says "you are everything I am trying to escape" whoa I think that is rather harsh. Tav had a moment of weakness while partnered to an immortal who will have partners after them, had numerous partners before them and is currently being celibate as a choice Tav is supporting. I think that is a little rough and judgemental on his part.

Having said that, while I don't like the change the update brought to this encounter with Mizora, I'm not asking for it to be changed, just hoping a Mod will be available to give the Ascended reaction even though romancing Spawn Astarion as it fits my roleplay for him and my Tav.

Spawn Astarion is still okay with Tav sleeping with Halsin, so it's really not about having sex with someone else AT ALL, it's about lying and betraying his trust. It just shows that he is learning some self-respect and that cheating and lying are bad things which neither he nor his partner should be okay with, and this is exactly what his arc is all about - he is learning how to be a better person. The only minus is that it's hidden behind Mizora encounter and his romance. So average players will still continue to ignore his growth, because the only thing they see is his approvals which are the same as AA has.

Rote90 you got me thinking, I rewatched my Tav's encounter with Mizora, the Graveyard scene with Astarion and the Patch 7 Youtube video of the added content for Spawn Astarion. And I do think the Patch 7 added content is in alignment with his charcter IF it is post graveyard scene. My Tav said "You are the person I want, the person I love" and Astarion says "I love you, I love this and I want it all" (I think I got that right or close to) and at this point I do feel a deeper commitment is made and a night with Mizora after this is a serious betrayal of trust.

However, my Tav's encounter with Mizora was back in Rivington, pre Cazador and graveyard, at this point when asking Astarion about the relationship he says "I don't know, but isn't it good not to know" to me, the night with Mizora is still cheating but at a far less extent, as the boundaries hadn't yet been firmly set on the relationship or the deeper commitment made. I am curious now whether Larian has made any distiction between pre or post graveyard as well.

I know not everyone will agree with me, cheating is cheating, I would agree that is true for most other companions as their boundaries are very clear.

In my Tav playthrough, the night that Astarion invites Tav back to his bunk, he says "you'll be all mine and I'll be all yours for tonight at least" and then Tav finds out the next morning that he also had sex with Laezel that night (Teifling Party), so for my Tav, Astarion is a bit of a player.

I like my Astarion firmly in the grey, Spawn or Ascended. I don't see him as being really good or really bad. To me the core difference between Astarion's development paths is that Spawn Astarion chose freedom and Ascended Astarion chose power.

I also agree with you that Astarion is learning to be a better person, however his good or bad development is heavily influenced by Tav, especially on the journey leading up to the defeat of Cazador.

BG3 is such a great game that it can create so many stories and that it is so much more than just smashing keys and killing things. I love that it is a mix of strategy and story.

"Still cheating but to a far less extent." Right... so it's cheating lol. And the boundaries are clearly set because if you have something going on with another companion in act 2 he tells you that he won't be in a relationship with you unless you break it off with them. More than that, you can't sleep with Mizora without it being something the player intentionally does behind their romanced companion's back, because she tells you it will be your secret and they never have to know. So it really isn't cheating to a lesser extent... it's having sex with someone with the agreement to keep it a secret from your partner. That's just cheating.

As for the "I'l be yours until morning at least" this happens before you enter into a relationship. At this point in the story you can explore your options with every companion without consequence. Astarion sleeps with Lae'zel if you don't sleep with him the night of the tiefling party, but again this is before the player has entered into a relationship with anyone.

Not wanting to be cheated on isn't about having a gray morality, it's an interpersonal boundary.

Sorry if the tone if this is harsh but tbh I'm like... really tired of the idea that the companions' personality should be adjusted to suit the player. It gets to a point where it strips the characters of their personalities. This reaction from Astarion has been in the datamined files for a long time, it just took Larian time to implement it in the game.

It's maybe also worth noting that during the act 1 encounters he is sleeping with you (or Lae'zel) not because he likes it, but because he is looking for protection. Depending on the Act 2 scene you get, he even admits that - even though he likes you - thinking about intimacy (I assume he means sex because he seems to be fine with kissing - maybe, hopefully? ) fills him with disgust and loathing. So bringing up those scenes as an argument for why it should be ok to cheat on him, feels weird. Especially if you got the Act 2 scene in which he apologises for spinning you along.

His rapture - the only good act 3 sexy time encounter in my opinion - is also not being free, but being safe.

SMH- Disrespecting DJ Shadowheart like this!

Jokes aside- While I don't think it's OOC for Spawn to react like the dialogue they've made available now, I also get the idea vampires could have different notions of how relationships work, if only because I'm a vampire nut. I don't think Larian should change it, but I also get if someone wants it as a mod. Well, you can understand just about anything being wanted as a mod. The sky's the limit : P

I agree, it is a danger of watering out their personality with every change. But OP made it clear it was more of a mod request, not a petition for a change. I think mod requests are a great way to get to play your dream story.

I am so sorry DJ Shadowheart, you are nice too.

Unascended Astarion gave me the impression that he does not care much for sex and gets more out of gathering powerful things and other shenanigans which I personally find very appealing. There's nothing quite like a heist-date after all. But I also know that a lot of people see it differently, so it's nice that now the skybox is the limit.

But I'd echo what Rote wrote above in that it's a shame that most interesting interactions with him are locked behind possibly relationship breaking actions while there are few affirming actions that provide additional narrative. I can only think of the Araj encounter in act 3 - maybe going book stealing together if you also count that as a romantic activity.

I'm never sure if I feel this way as well because I'm a completionist, but I've always held his romance flows way more naturally if you're romancing someone at the same time and their act 2 scene triggers first, making Astarion talk to you about it. I think it adds the step that's missing behind his attitude in act 1 to his attitude in act 2, I found the shift a bit jarring when the only other build-up I can think of is the scar scene (which is greatly done! But I do wish there had been more exploration in-between)

I completely agree (and I am so sorry Wyll) Especially if you trigger the Act 2 scene through Yurgir, a long time passes between his act 1 scenes and his revelation, but even if you trigger it through Araj, it feels like a step is missing. While I think that both the scar scene as well as the scene during which he gets jealous are nicely done, I am most surprised that the scene about taking over the cult does not have a romantic variation in which he tries to tighten his hold. Controlling the tadpole is, after all, one of the two reasons he might need his powerful ally for.

(I hope it's ok we got slightly off topic.)