Larian Banner: Baldur's Gate Patch 9
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Mar 2018
S
apprentice
OP Offline
apprentice
S
Joined: Mar 2018
In Baldur's Gate 3, the last-selected class during leveling up determines your spellcasting modifier attribute - one of the reasons why I usually only multiclass during respeccing, unless I'm combining classes that don't cast spells at all.
With the strong overlap between Sorcerers and Wizards (back in my 3.5 days, they used to have the exact same spell list), I've already seen builds for Sorcerers that cast all their spells with intelligence by picking Wizard levels last.
I've tried to find that video on YouTube again but couldn't at the moment (it's from the guy who always has notes in black-on-white editor text on the right side of the screen, but I've forgotten his name). He explained some upside to using intelligence as the spellcasting attribute (overall, it's a less useful attribute than charisma; I think that's hardly debatable, since I don't know of any noteworthy conversation skill checks with other NPCs requiring intelligence).

So conversely, I now asked myself if charisma might be the better spellcasting modifier for Wizards, too?
Rather than investing a bunch of skill points into intelligence, always ending on a Sorcerer or Warlock level would allow you to play a charismatic but unintelligent wizard instead. This might lend itself especially well to melee casters, as one of the most powerful Wizard builds is the Abjuration Wizard with Armour of Agathys. This Wizard wants to be in melee, ideally provoking opportunity attacks left and right, constantly dealing damage with Armour of Agathys while Arcane Ward prevents the Wizard from taking any damage himself.



Analogously to my recent question "Who is your thrower: Karlach or Lae'zel?", this then leads to the question: Who is your preferred melee caster: Gale or Wyll?



Lore-wise, Wyll obviously wants to do melee combat - so desperately that he jumps off his advantageous high ground at the Emerald Grove, just to stab a goblin with his blade. But as a Warlock, a lot of people won't let him do that, because why would you if you could just hide him in a Darkness cloud and start Eldritch-Blasting away? The primary argument for the alternative is Booming Blade - pact weapons alone wouldn't convince me to send Wyll into Melee, especially not with Light Armour only.

The melee Wizard, meanwhile - presumably Gale - takes little to no damage in melee if he specialises in Abjuration. But in turn, he can only do damage passively, by provoking opportunity attacks into his Armour of Agathys (for which he has to multiclass anyway, preferrably into Draconic Bloodline: White Sorcerer, rather than into Warlock). There isn't really a good melee damage spell for Wizards, like Inflict Wounds for Clerics. And if you want to use Inflict Wounds as a Wizard Cleric multiclass, you'll likely make the Wizard a Necromancer, not an Abjuration Wizard.
The best spell a Wizard could cast in melee is probably Shocking Grasp, but only if you're abusing the Wet condition anyway, given that Armour of Agathys deals cold damage. And are you really playing a Wizard to cast only cantrips? wink That feels very much like playing a Warlock... =D (Admittedly, Ice Sorcerers eventually end up only wanting to cast Ray of Frost.)


It would make sense to me to give the Wizard who already has a single Draconic-Bloodline Sorcerer level for Armour of Agathys a single level in Hexblade (duh) for Booming Blade. But at that point at latest, picking the Sorcerer or Warlock level last and thereby making the Wizard cast everything with charisma seems like the obvious way to go? Because you kind of need a pact weapon / some way to add your spellcasting modifier to your weapon attack roll to make Booming Blade good, if you're not a martial class. So that begs for a level in Warlock, and for casting everything with charisma, even if the majority of your levels are in Wizard. Especially because you could now add Paladin levels for even more melee damage, while you're at it.

Adding Paladin levels in turn makes more sense with Wyll, lore- and personality-wise.

I guess the question is being made more complicated by the fact that Gale doesn't really have a canonical subclass: By default, he picks Evocation (probably just to easy beginners into the game); in one dialogue, he says he prefers Abjuration to something else another companion suggests; and if you make him a professor, he ends up specialising in Illusion.

Last edited by Strato Incendus; 18/06/25 08:26 PM.
Joined: Nov 2023
T
addict
Offline
addict
T
Joined: Nov 2023
Originally Posted by Strato Incendus
In Baldur's Gate 3, the last-selected class during leveling up determines your spellcasting modifier attribute

Only for spells from items (Spells granted directly by items or scrolls)

Otherwise spells all use the spellcasting modifer of the class which acquired them.

This enables classes to swap into INT because of Wizard's ability to scribe any spells they have the spell slots for, regardless of their Wizard level (A level 10 Cleric with 1 Wizard level can scribe any and all Wizard spells in the game for example) giving them access to a full spell list that uses INT with a single dip.

It doesn't work any other way (Trying to make spells use CHR or WIS) due to the inability to acquire a full spell list of either stat without having invested the 11 levels in one of those classes (Emphasis on "One" you can't multi-class say Druid and Cleric and still get 6th level WIS spells)

It ONLY works by way of being able to obtain the full Wizard spell list (Which is more complete than what Sorc naturally gets) via scribing.

Originally Posted by Strato Incendus
Who is your preferred melee caster: Gale or Wyll?

Wyll (Or rather, Warlock).

Hexblade = CHR for Weapon (Regardless of pact) and Medium Armour proficiency. While Warlock overall gets access to Agonizing Blast to get spell stat on Eldritch Blast. CHR base also means later you can opt to forgo Medium Armour for Potent Robe to get CHR mod on Cantrips (At like level 7-8. Well before the level 10 that Evo Wiz needs to get their INT mod on any spells) which works well with both Eldritch Blast and also Booming Blade (Booming Blade also benefits from Arcane Synergy allowing even more CHR on weapon damage rolls)

Gale (Or rather, Wizard) has some potential, but it's more for niche builds. Things like Abjurer Tank, Arcane Trickster Multi (To abuse Magical Ambush) or going Bladesinger for style (With its unique and somewhat flamboyant attack animations).

Technically, if we're going by character rather than class...

Gale could in fact conceivably be a Bard given its overlap with Wizard (Studying magic) and also his lore aspects (Preferring Abjuration, becoming a professor of Illusion). Wherein Sword Bard can contend with Warlock. More of a martial focus given needing STR/DEX for weapons (Though, nothing a Hexblade dip can't solve... While also granting Booming Blade and Eldritch Blast) and a plethora of spells, with a topping of Flourishes and their incredible propensity to be obscenely broken.

Originally Posted by Strato Incendus
There isn't really a good melee damage spell for Wizards, like Inflict Wounds for Clerics.

Anything that doesn't use an Attack Roll is viable in melee range (I.e. Most AoE's like Burning Hands, Shatter, Lightning Bolt). Also Magic Missile which has no attack/save roll because it always hits (Unless Shield)

In addition, there's the Daredevil Gloves you can get in the Creche which allows you to make any ranged attack roll spells into Melee spells (Though, Wizard doesn't have that many Attack Roll spells anyway just... Ice Knife, Witch Bolt, Scorching Ray and Melf's Acid Arrow... Most of these kind of suck anyway with Scorching Ray being most relevant but only for Dragon Sorc whom gets their CHR mod on each bolt. Evo Wiz prefers just using Magic Missile/Art of War with their INT mod at level 10+)

Last edited by Taril; 17/06/25 06:00 PM.
Joined: Aug 2023
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Aug 2023
*again missing the LIKE button for Tarils post*

Personally I think Larian should fix that you use the last class you picked for items and scrolls. Of all the possible options this is the one that makes the least sense.

Every other option I can think of would make more sense:

1. The class you picked first
2. The class that has the most levels
3. The attribute thats the highest bonus
4. The attribute that relates to the spell in question - if you use a Cleric item, it would use Wis, etc

But the last class picked makes no sense to me. For example a Bard(11)/Cleric(1) that started as Bard and scores a Charisma 20 score, but only a Wis 13 score (thats original D&D5 rules for picking up a Cleric multiclass, not enforced in BG3) and picked up Cleric on level 7 to afterwards continue with Bard, should absolutely use Charisma not Wisdom for scrolls and items. This is primarily a Bard in every regard.

Joined: Jun 2022
Location: outback nsw
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Jun 2022
Location: outback nsw
The strongest wizard is evocation 11, warlock (blade) 1
Normal battle looks like, send a character in to burn the targets reaction
Use bonus action to cast warlock hex on target
Magic missile that target... This easily kills any boss in the game

2nd most powerful wizard is the lightning / tempus cleric which can fry a wet target with 144 lightning damage once per long rest


Luke Skywalker: I don't, I don't believe it.
Yoda: That is why you failed.
Joined: Aug 2023
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Aug 2023
I thought that build goes sorcerer, any subclass (9) / cleric, tempest domain (2) / wizard (1) ?

With the sorcerer providing metamagic to boost the wizard spells

Tempus is the chaotic neutral deity of war, I dont think he has Tempest as domain


Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5