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enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2024
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"Would you like another?"
"Yes, please."
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2023
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I mean... In for a penny, in for a pound...
Also, there's the whole thing of you only get the option to take more parasites after it's revealed that you're being protected from them. So you no longer fear random ceremorphosis and figure that when you find a way to remove them you can remove all of them.
Though I do wonder about how their removal will interact with the partial ceremorphosis that they provide... Like, do you get to live normally but with a few bonus illithid powers? Do you become a mindless vegetable due to excessive brain damage? Does neuroplasticity mean you simply go back to being normal?
I suppose if you did just get to live with bonus illithid powers, surely there'd be a bunch of people doing research into that because getting super powers for free either by manipulating tadpoles, or proxying their effects would be pretty high on a lot of people's desires...
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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I think that all illithid powers go away when the parasite is removed. Astarion shows that, right ?
Last edited by ldo58; 09/02/26 05:23 PM.
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member
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Joined: Feb 2024
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Good points and a good question. For this matter I would consider BG3 its own rule system with many spells that could solve this or that problem simply not available. If I was a DM in a post-BG3 scenario, I'd probably rule like this: With the Absolute gone, any powers it kept up (think concentrations) dropped, which may explain why Astarion was no longer protected from sunlight and Karlach's heart finally failed. Can the tadpoles be removed? During the game, there are several instances where someone is sure they can remove the tadpole, only to find that these are different. The question here is, if this was due to the Absolute's active protection, or the nature of the tadpole and its link to the host. Let's assume we want to keep them, or removing them would be too dangerous. Ceremorphs don't necessarily die when the elder brain that spawned them dies. When illithid tadpoles don't find a host in time, usually because something destroyed their colony and no one brought them any, they can grow to enormous proportions. So, they could also theoretically live on in the people who were still in suspended ceremorphosis when the Netherbrain died and just keep doing their thing. Unlike regular tadpoles, the Absolute's modified ceremorphs left much of their hosts' brains and personalities intact while in suspended ceremorphosis. The Astral Prism protected the Emperor's chosen from being turned by the Absolute, which could be read as a clue that this is something the Absolute had to do consciously, i.e. keeping True Souls humanoid, while choosing to turn others earlier. Without that trigger, an infected host would stay in suspended ceremorphosis. That would leave our group with their tadpoles in something like symbiosis and future adventure hooks galore. Even if you carefully picked up all the conspirators' paperwork and exothermically cleansed all the labs, a host of villains will probably stand at the ready to hunt you for experiments to gain these powers themselves or raise their own army of half-flayers. The mid-term question would be, how stable such a symbiosis would be. Would you eventually grow tentacles, or get sick when your body eventually rejects the tadpoles?
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2023
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During the game, there are several instances where someone is sure they can remove the tadpole, only to find that these are different. The question here is, if this was due to the Absolute's active protection, or the nature of the tadpole and its link to the host. Well, technically, most of the assurances of removal are just "I'm going to kill you, but I'll say it's a cure". Ormeluum is the only one who genuinely thinks he can remove the tadpole, but he mentioned that these are different and are protected by magic (The Absolute's protection) The Astral Prism protected the Emperor's chosen from being turned by the Absolute, which could be read as a clue that this is something the Absolute had to do consciously, i.e. keeping True Souls humanoid, while choosing to turn others earlier. Without that trigger, an infected host would stay in suspended ceremorphosis. During one of the encounters with the Dream Guardian, it is mentioned that "The signal for you to turn is being sent repeatedly". Signifying that the act of ceremorphosis requires the Nether Brain to actively decide for it to occur, or at the very least, this Absolute brain (It doesn't make much sense for regular Brains to need such an active role given their lack of desire for un-ceremorphed hosts, evidenced by the fact that everyone and their cat tells you that ceremorphosis happens very quickly after infection and that you are walking around normally is highly irregular) Which brings up questions in regards to what would happen post-brain. If these tadpoles are (Mostly) dormant until given the order to go full ceremorphosis... Will that persist once the brain is gone and they will just happily sit inside your brain forever as they can never receive the signal to turn you? Or would they default back to regular tadpole behaviour and just insta-consume you?
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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During the game, there are several instances where someone is sure they can remove the tadpole, only to find that these are different. The question here is, if this was due to the Absolute's active protection, or the nature of the tadpole and its link to the host. Well, technically, most of the assurances of removal are just "I'm going to kill you, but I'll say it's a cure". Ormeluum is the only one who genuinely thinks he can remove the tadpole, but he mentioned that these are different and are protected by magic (The Absolute's protection) The Astral Prism protected the Emperor's chosen from being turned by the Absolute, which could be read as a clue that this is something the Absolute had to do consciously, i.e. keeping True Souls humanoid, while choosing to turn others earlier. Without that trigger, an infected host would stay in suspended ceremorphosis. During one of the encounters with the Dream Guardian, it is mentioned that "The signal for you to turn is being sent repeatedly". Signifying that the act of ceremorphosis requires the Nether Brain to actively decide for it to occur, or at the very least, this Absolute brain (It doesn't make much sense for regular Brains to need such an active role given their lack of desire for un-ceremorphed hosts, evidenced by the fact that everyone and their cat tells you that ceremorphosis happens very quickly after infection and that you are walking around normally is highly irregular) Which brings up questions in regards to what would happen post-brain. If these tadpoles are (Mostly) dormant until given the order to go full ceremorphosis... Will that persist once the brain is gone and they will just happily sit inside your brain forever as they can never receive the signal to turn you? Or would they default back to regular tadpole behaviour and just insta-consume you? When I blew up Gale to kill the Netherbrain, all (thousands of) infected people in Faerun turned to Mindflayer. So, killing the Netherbrain removed the magic stasis.
Also note that when you win the last battle, you command the netherbrain to destroy all tadpoles first and then itself. That also indicates that the worms will outlive the netherbrain and turn their victims when it is gone.
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enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2024
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During the game, there are several instances where someone is sure they can remove the tadpole, only to find that these are different. The question here is, if this was due to the Absolute's active protection, or the nature of the tadpole and its link to the host. My favorite is Auntie Ethyl
Essentially, JFC that's Netherese magic! GTF out of my face!
Not only is it funny, but she's so ancient and powerful that statement carries a lot more weight than pups like Halsin, Nettie, and even specialist Omelette.
Gut and the Githyanki creche don't count as they never had any intent to actually help you.
Last edited by Shadowbart; 11/02/26 06:25 PM.
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member
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Joined: Feb 2024
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evidenced by the fact that everyone and their cat tells you that ceremorphosis happens very quickly after infection and that you are walking around normally is highly irregular A regular 2e-ceremorph infection would have no "True Soul" stage. It's more like an infection with Naegleria fowleri with the tadpole eating most of the brain except for the parts it still needs to regulate bodily functions and metamorphose into a mind flayer. The (usually abducted) victims waste away within hours or days, and the mind flayer that later emerges would then need another twenty years raised by their hive to reach adulthood. Therefore, the Absolute plot did indeed produce very special tadpoles. Also note that when you win the last battle, you command the netherbrain to destroy all tadpoles first and then itself. That also indicates that the worms will outlive the Netherbrain and turn their victims when it is gone. I didn't remember this bit, but you're right. The question is, does this only affect any tadpoles on the loose or also those which have already merged with a host organism.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2023
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Also note that when you win the last battle, you command the netherbrain to destroy all tadpoles first and then itself. That also indicates that the worms will outlive the Netherbrain and turn their victims when it is gone. I didn't remember this bit, but you're right. The question is, does this only affect any tadpoles on the loose or also those which have already merged with a host organism. Well, given their insight into how Gale explodinating the Brain instantly transforms all infected (That aren't also caught in the blast), would suggest that it would affect the tadpoles that have merged. It does make me wonder about some things... Firstly: The Astral Tadpole. This seems to be an even more unique tadpole and you can apparently pass it around your group, meaning it's doing its thing and then leaving your brain. What's its deal? Secondly: I wonder how this removal of tadpoles would end up affecting people. Seemingly the powers disappear (Though what of the Astral Tadpole that doesn't stay in your brain?) so I'm expecting either heavy brain damage or neuroplasticity. Thirdly: Imagine being a person who stuffed their brain with tadpoles during BG3 and then had them all destroyed. Maybe you were lucky and neuroplasticity made you continue to function. What happens if you get infected by a new tadpole after that? Would it look at your swiss cheese brain and be like "Nah fam, I'm out" or would it be able to figure out your brains adaptations and know where all the new areas are located? (I suppose this also goes with the question about how tadpoles interact with different races, as surely different races have different brain configurations? Or are we dealing with crappy writing where every sentient race has a brain that is identical to human brains?)
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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Also note that when you win the last battle, you command the netherbrain to destroy all tadpoles first and then itself. That also indicates that the worms will outlive the Netherbrain and turn their victims when it is gone. I didn't remember this bit, but you're right. The question is, does this only affect any tadpoles on the loose or also those which have already merged with a host organism. Well, given their insight into how Gale explodinating the Brain instantly transforms all infected (That aren't also caught in the blast), would suggest that it would affect the tadpoles that have merged. It does make me wonder about some things... Firstly: The Astral Tadpole. This seems to be an even more unique tadpole and you can apparently pass it around your group, meaning it's doing its thing and then leaving your brain. What's its deal? Secondly: I wonder how this removal of tadpoles would end up affecting people. Seemingly the powers disappear (Though what of the Astral Tadpole that doesn't stay in your brain?) so I'm expecting either heavy brain damage or neuroplasticity. Thirdly: Imagine being a person who stuffed their brain with tadpoles during BG3 and then had them all destroyed. Maybe you were lucky and neuroplasticity made you continue to function. What happens if you get infected by a new tadpole after that? Would it look at your swiss cheese brain and be like "Nah fam, I'm out" or would it be able to figure out your brains adaptations and know where all the new areas are located? (I suppose this also goes with the question about how tadpoles interact with different races, as surely different races have different brain configurations? Or are we dealing with crappy writing where every sentient race has a brain that is identical to human brains?) I think that last question is answered by the infected Gnolls. Their brain wasn't really suited for tadpoles.
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