Larian Studios Forums General Chat Chat (Anything) the line between parenting and schooling

I read an interesting blurb about 38 year old Julie Atkins of Derby, England this morning.

She has three daughters; 12, 14, and 16. Last year, each girl gave birth. What she told the Sun Mercury is a priceless example of being an irresponsible, buckpassing twitbag. "I don't care what people say about me. I blame the schools. Sex education for young girls should be better."

Someone wanna explain to me why sex education should be the school's responsibilty and not the parents?

The way I see things, schools are responsible for imparting booksmarts on people. How to be a responsible, moral human being should be up to the parents.

Not only would I say this mother delighted by being a grandmother 3 times over, she's delighted by all the money she and her daughters will receive from the state, and the fact that they're news, and going to be on TV.

"If I could turn back the clock, I would prefer them not to have children. Their education is so important."

Hindsight is a wonderful thing... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Over here it's a known fact that teenagers WANT babies, will have babies, and then get their free housing and money from the government because they have babies. Children bringing up children...no amount of education is enough for some, they are still kids and if they want something they'll cry till they get it.

Of course lets also blame the irresponsible boys who only want to have sex then usually want nothing to do with the child afterwards...

I think every child in the world knows that an angry parent clams down eventually and things go back to normal, usually no matter what you've done. So have a baby...they might get mad, but they'll clam down and you'll still have that baby that you wanted...small price to pay.

How did the schools let her kids down...by the result it looks like they knew exactly what to do!
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
I have a million comments on this subject but they only get angyier as they go on so I'll stop now... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

"Jemma was first to give birth, to T-Jay in February last year, and weeks later Jade and Natasha discovered they were pregnant."

I have NO doubt that from reading this the other 2 girls where jealous of their sister and purposely went out to get pregnant so they could have their own child as well. 'She has a baby, I want one too...'

i don't know what to do knowing about the absurdity of this event; laugh or cry? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/disagree.gif" alt="" />

You seem to have access to a more indepth article on this subject than I do. Do you have a link you could share with me, please?

No problem

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4572219.stm

Wow...I remember when parents maintained responsibility for their kids...Im too dumbfounded to really even respond!!!

IMHO I think that only the two persons that had sex, are totally responsable for themselfs. If you as a parent, raised your son or daughter to be a good and responsable person, you can't help it if they get in trouble anyway.
If you forbid your teens to have sex at your home, they do it somewhere else anyway, and mostly in a hurry, without taking their precautions.
It's not easy being a parent, they forgot to add a manual when the child was delivered. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> You try to do the best you can, some want to do better then their own parents, others follow their parents examples, but either way, you make mistakes. It's only human to make mistakes. But you can't be responsable for your kids their whole lifes.
That is only IMHO. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

No, but when they are 12, a parent should be.

Going by what the mother has said, I don't think she tried very hard to raise her daughters with a good understanding about sex. It's like she expected someone else to explain stuff to them.

Yeah, true. But can you keep a twelve year old in the house if they want to leave the place? Maybe you can tie them on the bed? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" />
It's very difficult to know what you must do with teenagers. I'm not defending that mother, she shouldn't be proud of being a grand mother of the kids of her kids.
I only can hope I do it ok when my son grows up to be a teenager.

I plan on discipling my kids the way my parents disciplined me and my five older brothers. It apparantly worked because those of us who are now dads got married first, none of us have ended up in jail, and we actually listen to those who actual authority over us.

Well, as I was thinking but not posting ( <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />) is that the school's task is to educate the children. This includes sex. And if the children getting pregnant when they're twelve costs so much, then why should you rely on the parents to teach the children about sex? And to turn the pancake around, could yopu please explain to me why sex should be the parent's and not the school's responcibility?

Oh, and how did your parents diciplin you?

Übereil

I believe the primary function of schools is to impart booksmarts onto kids. Things like how to be a decent human being should be taught by the parents from the get go.

My parents used tough love. They didn't pander to me. When I did something wrong, they took me to task for it. They also tanned my behind, too.

Well, it's something to say about that.
The parents used to beat their children whenever they even breath in the wrong direction.
Then we learned it's not ok to beat your kids. So, we only spank them on the butt.
But now, when you even look angry to your kids, or you take away their allowence, they go complaining to some federal office.
I never died of getting a slap in my face, when I did something wrong, and if I came home and complained that the teacher hit me, I got another one from my mother.
Now, these days, you have to talk to them. Only talk, no yelling or punish them with something (not physicly) even if they laugh at you or don't give a damn what you say. It's really not easy anymore to control your kids as long as they are too young.
I only ask myself how this is possible; Like Üb told us before, in Sweden it's completely against the law to hit your children, but still they manage to raise them properly. But here in Belgium, the kids have no respect at all for someones work or possesions, I see that behavior every day at work. They don't show respect for people neither, and they are upportunists at every chance they get. If they can abuse a system, they do it.
I think we are gonna need that wet noodle, Barta! You are a teacher right? You see that kind of behavior also in your school? It's not already like in Dangerous Minds, but we are not far away of it anymore. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/disagree.gif" alt="" />

if you found that interesting you might find this intersting

on the news recently i heard that in china there are more males then females so the government is giving financial benifts to parents that have girls then boys


why us men rock <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ouch.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

The reason how that happened is not difficult to find. I have posted a link a while ago, about how the Chinese people drwn their new born girls, because they can only have one child. And a boy is better then a girl. I will try to find that link back. In the meantime, I found this Suitcases packed with Chinese baby girls

This is the link I talked about:Chinese holocaust for baby girls
So, no wonder there are more boys then girls left in China <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/puppyeyes.gif" alt="" />

How we manage to raise our children without beating them? (Here I'll just add a note: I'm allmost 18, and have never been close to sellp with a girl, so I'm very far away from being a parent.) Well, as I see it, beating your children is a short cut to getting them to obey you. It's much simpler to beat your child if he does something wrong and then tell him you'll do it again if he/she does it again than teaching him that doing that thing is wrong. Teaching him takes longer if nothing else. So, the effect when beating him is on a short term: you'll get him to stop. This is great. On a short term that is. Let's put up an example: Your 5-year old son steals a toy car from your three-year old son. Your three year old son screams and your parents arrive, spanks the 5-year old and tells him not to do it again. By thin he'll lern that if he steals a toy car from his little brother he'll get punished. If he steals it and get away he won't get punished, so if he can do this it's right to do so. We've got what we in Sweden calls an eye-servant ie he only behaves when someone's there to make sure he behaves, because if no one is there he won't get caught, and then he won't have to behave. On a long term this will make them the kind of pepole Gal was talking about.
In Sweden though beating you child is illegal. So, if your 5-year old son steals a toy car from your 3-year old son, then you can't beat him and tell him you'll do it again and the problem is out of the picture, no, you have to teach him that stealing is wrong. This will eventually solve the problem, but it takes longer and it's a lot harder, but the result is a lot better. This is why I think beating your child should be illegal, because this force the parents to raise their children the hard way.

Übereil

Well, if you just smack your kids and say "NO!" than that isn't a good idea. My parents did a combination of the two methods you mentioned. They explaind why something was wrong, such as stealing, and if I continued to do it anyway, then I got smacked.

I think timeouts don't accomplish much, and as a future teacher, I hate the fact that more and more parents are handcuffing school officials when it comes to disciplining students.

Timeouts?

Übereil

Raising a child can be such a puzzle...

I agree with mickey here that it is the parent's duty to teach their child about moral and responsibilities. They experience social life much more at school, but the parents have to be the first ones guiding and "framing" the kid. Both parents and school work to the child's social developpement, but in different/complementary aspects and ways.

As for how to apply this as a parent and settle its authority, I think that explainations and dialogue are the best mean. The way I work personally with kids is to go with reason: I have solid points when I forbid something; it's longer because that opens the door to debate with the child and you have to explain everything, but it works better usually.
Unfortunately there are some tougher kids, and more rebellious teenagers, with who it doesn't always work (often a question of lack of goodwill, of desire to challenge); those can sometimes push us to our limits... I think it is different for each case, but sometimes, in some situations, childs have to be shaken when things get out of reason. It is not usual, but it happens; and one of the ways possible is to use force. I am agaisnt harming children, but I undrestand that a parent may come to smack its kid's behind or fingers, or grab the child strongly by the arm.

I wonder if some decades ago there were such questionning and debates about the way to raise & discipline his kids?

@ Mick -> from your description, i say your have a really great set of parents. & i am fortunate that my parents didn't go soft on me when i made boo-boos.

@ Ube -> school as how others put it is meant for academic progress, not a surrogate parent where real parents can relinquish their primary responsibilities of raising their children.

it is true that kids shouldn't be handled so roughly but i say this differs with each child. some are easy to handle but too meek so u need to be extra soft to him/her. & then some are just so stubborn that u need to be a bit rougher so he/she will learn the lesson.

it all depends on the child. which is why schools cannot & never will make a good job out of parenting kids with the ratio of teacher & students at least 1 to 30 (can be more). this also touches the aspect of censorship which parents shouldn't push to the government or authorities to do. they themselves should enforce it from home.