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journeyman
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All TIME best CRPG's I must include Commodore Amiga games.

"Legend of Faerghail" (excuse the spelling) was a German production, excelent.
Also there was :

"Black Crypt" and

"Xenomorph" which was brilliant with it's scary atmosphere and was the only futuristic CRPG Ive seen although the Might and Magics include some Science fiction elements.

Going way back before the Amiga there was "Bards Tale" and of course "Dungeon Master" (or was that Amiga) on the Commodore 64

PC games .... mmmh Golden oldies must include:

"Stonekeep" and

"Anvil of Dawn"

More recent I must say:

"Elder scrolls"

"Wizards and Warriors"

All the Neverwinters nights and of course

Divine Divinity <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />



Happiness is relative: the less relatives you have, the happier you are. If at first you dont succeed; hide the evidence that you ever tried. When afraid or when in doubt: run in circles, scream and shout. Robert A Heinlein
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Seeing as though all you guys are so experienced with RPG games, I want to get some advice. I don't have much money and I wanted to buy a game, which do you think I should get between these 3:

Gothic 2
Beyond Divinity
Divine Divinity

Has the problem with the skill system been solved with Beyond Divinity in that you don't get enough skill points to fully round out your characters? Anyways what do ya guys think?

Ohh yeah I liked fallout 2 best out of all the RPGS I have played.

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Well, in my opinion, I would get Gothic 2 or Divine Divinity (DD). Beyond Divinity is a continuation of the Divine series so to get the most out of it I would play DD first.

Gothic 2 is a great game. The gameworld feels much more alive than any other game I've ever played. NPCs actually keep schedules, they work certain hours, and go to bed at night (a great time for thievery). The story is pretty good. I can't say enough good things about this game.

However, DD is a stellar title as well. The gameplay is excellent, and the 2D graphics are beautiful.

Its a tough decision, but one only you can make. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />


"Wizard's First Rule: People are stupid" - Zeddicus Zu'l Zorander
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Do you already have Gothic I ?


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"Interplay.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
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Depends where you live. If you live in USA, you get Divine Divinity in the package with Beyond Divinity.

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REALLY! Wow that makes my mind up then. Two games for the price of one. AWESOME. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" /> Thanks for the input guys. One question, does Divine Divinity have randomly generated weapons and equiptment like Beyond Divinity does or is the equiptment pregenerated?

I also saw Gothic 2 in preowned games for only 17.99 . Maybe I will pick that up too.

In order to reinvigorate this topic,

Which game that you guys can think of has the best skill system?

Diablo (1 or 2)
Fallout (1 or 2)
Wizardry 8
FF series
Planscape: T
etc.

Whats your ideal skill system? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" />

My ideal skill system seems to be a combination of Fallout and Wizardry 8 (Which is similar to Morrowwind). I like it that you train a skill and it will slowly rise, but I also love those percs in Fallout. I wish they would have it so some skills like using a sword would increase the more you use it (rather then dumping skill points into them when you level up) and other skills would be like the perc system in Fallout. They would give you attribute points that you could distribute(ie. strength, agility, dex, etc.)and sometimes it would unlock perc points. Certain percs would be unlocked at high levels and would require you to save points for that perc if you wanted it and other percs would have a low cost at low levels but wouldn't be as great. I also like the idea in some games where you can handicapp yourself in certain areas, but the handicap gives you a bonus in other areas(like being an idiot savant barbarian or something).

Also the skills would have a cap dependent on either (or both) your level or your attributes. So at level 1 you couln't train your sword slashing past skill 20 for example until you either level up or your dexterity is at 16.

IF you combined leveling up with attributes maybe you could have leveling up unlock maybe ten points of a skill and the attributes would modify the amount unlocked. For instance, your a level 2 which caps the amount of skill points for bashing weapons at 20, but since your strength is 18 you get 2 extra points unlocked every level of strength being over 15, so you would have a maximum of 26. As you get to very high levels dumping attribute points into certain attributes would have a dramatic effect on your skill cap.

I also think there should be a manner by which you can forget skills you previously learned if you neglect them. So if your just hacking and slashing all the time, and you never train your pickpocketing then your pickpocketing skill should slowly diminish.
The lower it goes the longer it takes to forget a point so that you don't loose the minimum skill of pickpocketing too quickly, and once you retrain certain numbers over and over those numbers become harder to forget. So if your skill in something which was at 30 goes down to 20 due to neglect and you retrain it back up to 30 then the next time around it will take longer to go back down to 20. So the more you retrain your skillpoints back up the longer it takes for them to diminish back down.

Another idea would be that your skill points would be totally open (ie. you could train any skill to its highest level from the outset), but as the skills get better and better it takes longer and longer amounts of time to increase it, and attributes make it more easy (ie. less time) to train skills at higher levels. Leveling would only unlock percs and attributes.

What do ya guys think? Throw some ideas at me.

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My Idea is HOLY FRIGGEN CRAP THAT IS ALOT OF WORDS! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Im overloaded! Let me read the whole thing now.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

Gothic 2? I recommend DD over it because I like DD and in BD you get DD for free and so its a double DD for D-D and B-D so its like get DD over G2 but if you want get DD (The double DD [D-d {and BD} yeah] pack) and then get G2.



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My Idea is HOLY FRIGGEN CRAP THAT IS ALOT OF WORDS! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Im overloaded! Let me read the whole thing now.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

Gothic 2? I recommend DD over it because I like DD and in BD you get DD for free and so its a double DD for D-D and B-D so its like get DD over G2 but if you want get DD (The double DD [D-d {and BD} yeah] pack) and then get G2.


I'd reccomend Gothic 2 and Divine/Beyond Divinity as separate games.
Some people aren't fond of Action RPGs whereas some prefer tactical ones. If you want a good, big game with a detailed, living, breathing world and an interesting combat system (although you have to get used to it), take Gothic.
Beyond divinity has great spell effects, an excellent writing, the best RPG system I've yet seen and is rather addictive.

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Of those games you've listed, I've only played Divinity and Diablo. Diablo 2 has one of the best skill systems, mostly because it's specialised for the game style: hack & slash. Otherwise, the Dungeons & Dragons skill system.

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Also the skills would have a cap dependent on either (or both) your level or your attributes. So at level 1 you couln't train your sword slashing past skill 20 for example until you either level up or your dexterity is at 16.

Yup. That's a good way to do it. Even better, I'd like to see an attribute-less system. Just have skills, some of which cross-teach each other. (eg. Improving Fire ball slightly improves every other fire based spell.)

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I also think there should be a manner by which you can forget skills you previously learned if you neglect them. So if your just hacking and slashing all the time, and you never train your pickpocketing then your pickpocketing skill should slowly diminish.

I don't agree. Skills points are usually a rare commodity. I'd hate to lose all that I'd learned because I was in a combat heavy area or got stuck at a puzzle for a long time. Or even because I forgot to pause and went to make dinner!

Quote
Another idea would be that your skill points would be totally open (ie. you could train any skill to its highest level from the outset), but as the skills get better and better it takes longer and longer amounts of time to increase it, and attributes make it more easy (ie. less time) to train skills at higher levels. Leveling would only unlock percs and attributes.

Sounds good, but what about skills like Alchemy and Lockpick? What bonus do they get once you are able to make the biggest potion or pick the most complex of locks?

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Another idea would be that your skill points would be totally open (ie. you could train any skill to its highest level from the outset), but as the skills get better and better it takes longer and longer amounts of time to increase it, and attributes make it more easy (ie. less time) to train skills at higher levels. Leveling would only unlock percs and attributes.

Sounds good, but what about skills like Alchemy and Lockpick? What bonus do they get once you are able to make the biggest potion or pick the most complex of locks?


Alchemy:
- 3% the potion will exlode in your face instead of the usual 5.
- 1% The potion will turn into poison (clumsy manipulation) instead of the usual 3.
- Potions have double effect.
- Almost-instant effect potions.
- Expert brewing allow the user to consecutively drink two potions of the same type (otherwise the user must wait six seconds as a mix of two different liquids inside one's digestive system might produce undesirable effects).

Pick Locks:
- Silent Pick locks
- Quick Pick Locks
- Jam lock (useful to isolate someone/yourself in a room without worrying about the lock to be opened/picked).
- Safe cracking

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I would have to say (IMHO) that Lands of Lore and Betrayel at Krondor are not just classics but paved the way for games we play today. As for PC, Diablo and Diablo 2 LOD, and recently for me BD and Morrowind + Addons. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />

Best 1st person EVER, DOOM. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

Worst game I ever played "the Lesiure Suit Larry Series" (boring) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sleepey.gif" alt="" />

Cheers <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/party.gif" alt="" />


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Best 1st person EVER, DOOM. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

Which was, last time I checked, listed under "action" games.

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Worst game I ever played "the Lesiure Suit Larry Series" (boring) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sleepey.gif" alt="" />

Impatient people shouldn't play adventure games.

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Hey dude, you didn't comment about Lands of Lore or Betrayal at krondor? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" />

Also he did ask *****ALL TIME WORST/BEST/WHATEVER/GAMES EVER*

So I guess Doom and LSL fit under whatever hey?

Cheers

p.s. RTCW was excellent as well

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Yes, but this is an RPG thread.

The best single word I can think of describing RTCW is "funky" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.
The first levels ruled: backstabbing soldiers was fun!

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RTCW?

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journeyman
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i botherd to read this crap u been posting i am probably litel late but i have four games thats good that u mised i migth haVE MISED SOME OF YOUR POSTS here they come
golden sun
golden sun the lost age
seadogs
valhalla chronicles


LET THE DRAGON RIDE THE WINDS OF THE WORLD ONCE AGAIN "THE WHEEL OF TIME"
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i botherd to read this crap u been posting i am probably litel late but

Good, because I rarely bother to read yours.
And Golden Sun is a pitful excuse for an RPG.

RTCW = Return to Castle Wolfenstein.

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No offense meant, Goldensun, but you're the first person I've ever met who has referred to Valhalla Chronicles as "good," and no, I'm not joking. I've yet to read a good review of it, and having tried it, couldn't find anything decent in the game to warrant playing further. Just out of curiosity, what did you enjoy in it?

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You can get the first level in the demo free! Knife time! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badsmile2.gif" alt="" />



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Best 1st person EVER, DOOM. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

Which was, last time I checked, listed under "action" games.

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Worst game I ever played "the Lesiure Suit Larry Series" (boring) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sleepey.gif" alt="" />

Impatient people shouldn't play adventure games.


Just for the record Doom is an fps game.fps is more a view then a genere.Action fps like dues x is an rpg/fps.

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