Larian Studios Forums Divine Divinity (English) General Why promote save-reload-until-lucky?

Hi! Haven't played too much yet, but quickly learned that items in chests/bookshelves/... are mostly random and not decided until mouse is above the container/item.
So, being the goblin I am, I go to each bookshelf and quicksave, then reload until it has a spellbook. Same with the chests (reload until getting a charm or a statuette) etc.

I've gone through the village and am currently trying to clear out the fifth level in the catacombs where that Maradeus guy went mad, and I've gotten statuette of frog/cat/spider, five smaller charms, at least two different armour pieces each for increasing identify/lockpick/monsterknowledge/repair, plus 30 spellbooks of different types.

Especially for the spellbooks this is very helpful, since I can put my skill points on other things, but it feels... bad. I guess some of you would call this cheating, but as I see it, this is not very different from reloading because you get killed. Using cracks or editing savefiles is cheating, sure, but using a feature that is well known and used by everyone in smaller or larger scale... oh well, it's up to each person's conscience, I guess.

This is not something unique for DivDiv, of course. Almost every game seems to be using the same method, promoting the use of saving before random loot, and reloading until you get satisfied.


Ok, so to my question: Why is it so?
Do game creators just not care about it? This is, after all, the easiest way to code things.
Or is it done this way because people want to have this possibility to increase their luck?

Personally I would have prefered all random loot to be decided when you create your character. I believe it would be easily done by the use of one random number that is created at start, which is saved with your character and used as seed for all random loot in the future, keeping all loot random as usual, but not changing just because you reload a saved game.
So if you are unhappy with the loot, you can try again, but only by starting a new game from scratch.

Hoping for an answer but I'm not in a hurry. I'll be spending some time enjoying this game.
Thank you for taking your time reading this post.

I didn't have the patience to get a spell book from each bookcase, but did reload several times at each to try. I also reloaded with chests to make sure I at got something decent, and with unique equipment to make sure I got the best damage/armour value and good bonuses.
That was quite helpful at the start of the game, but the game tends to get easier as it progresses anyway, so if you always maximize your equipment/loot you will end up fairly over-powered (unless you avoid charms or pick some other handicap). Playing again I would still reload a bit for stuff like the dragon armour, but would set a limit for myself.

BTW, hitting the Alt key nearby will also fix the contents in containers, the stats on equipment and the inventory of NPCs, just like running the mouse cursor over them.


As for why a developer would allow such an exploit with random loot, at least part of the reason, as you said, is that is the easiest way to design the item generation system.

I think there are more people who want to have the possibility of making sure they get something 'good' than there are who want the game to make sure they don't get tempted to use an exploit. If loot is random there shouldn't be any necessity to reload (if the game is balanced right), but you have that option if you run into a tough opponent, or want to switch weapon types, or something. If loot is fixed, then running into a rough patch, there may not be many option for moving forward. The latter case would get a lot more criticism than the first, since problems cause by reloading excessively are the fault of the player.

There are also situations where it could effect the replayability of the game. If you have to revert to an earlier save and replay a couple hours, at least the loot being different would help (especially if you are reloading because you ran into too much trouble, and wanted to develop your character a little differently). If you have to replay part of the game and you get all the same loot again, it could make things a little more tedious.


Gorasul is a fairly short RPG, with a scarcity of gold, expensive potions and very expensive equipment repairs. The first day I played it I made it half way through the game before I literally could not proceed, as all my good weapons were unusable and I had no gold or potions.

There was a particular quest for which you got to choose your reward (IIRC base on how you answered a series of questions); if you got gold as the reward, and reloaded until you got more than a certain amount, then you would have enough to keep repairing your weapon. If not, then you would have a very difficult time.

There were random battles when traveling on the world map, with randomly placed opponents. If the opponents were spread out, then depending on the terrain it could be trivial to take them all out without needing any potions. If these same opponents surrounded your characters from the start, you could burn through most of your potions just trying to survive. Given the shortage of potions, the second time around I saved before moving on the world map, and reloaded if I hit a random battle that used too many potions, or encountered a negative event (a party member catching some disease, etc).

While this isn't the same as reloading for equipment stats, I still had to strategically reload to be able to finish the game.


Even in a well balanced game, if there is going to be random loot (etc), which adds to the replayability, then the developer has to accept that an as-needed random system may be exploited, or they have to make certain that they don't end up pre-generating equipment that is biased against a certain class or playing style (though a good crafting system could make up for poor random loot).


Welcome to the forum.

Thank you, Raze, for a quick and very good answer.
I still wish the game could be balanced without the need for reload possibility, but I see your point. And I really don't know how I would have managed that nasty spider at the bottom without some reload-boost.
Yes, I noticed that Alt was a bad key to use before exploiting the reload-feature fully.
And it has an added bonus of showing more interesting notes (any books that always load in a bookshelf has been put there manually by the creators).

Great to see this forum is still alive.

Normally I don't do this, but on my latest playthrough, I've done the save-reload thing with booksheves as well, and basically maxed out like half of my Wizard's skills without spending a skill point.

The catacombs were made easier for me because I found 3 "Elemental Hail" spellbooks in Aleroth.

Honestly though, it's so tedious to do that that I'm not going to do it again. You get like one spellbook per 30 looks at the bookshelves, and duplicates make it so much worse.

I do save/reload for some unique items because good drops are so very hard to find. Example: I wore the same 2 Intelligence/20 Mana leather armor from George's shop all the way to the end of Iona's dungeon because I hadn't found anything better. Basically I want 5 charm slots and 60 Health/60 Mana on all my final gear, if I get that, I'm happy.

I also unpleasantly discovered that even if you identify an item, its stats are not fixed until it is in your inventory, so if you find item X with good stats and save before putting it into your inventory, when you load that save, your item re-rolls.

A narrower range of possibilities would help reduce the desire to reload, at least for chests and equipment (if you need potions or traps, etc, from a merchant who doesn't consistently carry them, you would still want the option to reload). The dragon armour quality can range from really crappy (though that is rare) to pretty much best in the game, so you almost need to reload at least a few times to make sure you get something decent. On the other hand, you don't want to limit the range too much, or you might as well not bother at all.
Spellbooks shouldn't be plentiful, so they would either have to remain a fairly low random chance, or be restricted to only certain bookcases.

I found a Burning Wall spellbook in Mardaneus' house when looting, which I used to take out the spider at the bottom of the catacombs (it could kill me in 1 or 2 hits, while I could barely do any damage with my sword).


The only time I recall identified items not having their stats fixed is when they are given to you by an NPC (so they get put directly in your inventory); moving them will fix the stats.

I prefer to go with "luck of the draw" and accept whatever I'm given as random drops. I find it is more interesting and fun this way, and less like a tedious job. One must adapt!

The problem, allthumbs, is that the game is really reluctant to hand out good gear. I wore the same armor from leaving Aleroth all the way through the bottom of Iona's dungeon because I hadn't found anything better. The fact that there are only one to three unique items per type and the enemies don't respawn also makes it hard to just move on.

As a somewhat anal retentive completist type gamer, I find it too easy to continuallly save and reload to find better drops. I am trying to avoid that here and go with what the game gives me. Otherwise I don't even enjoy the game, and have trouble getting into the "mood" of it. Can't one find decent equipment by trying shopkeepers at various times? Please tell me there is hope!!

While the majority of the equipment I used was found or dropped, I did buy some decent equipment. NPC inventories are reset after about 10 or 15 minutes (depends on the NPC), so you can check back periodically for better stuff.

Well I think they wanted it randomed, and if anyone abuses this, wel, it' up to the gamers...

I, too example, am to lazy to load/save all the time and take all the randomized items. 'course I reload when I die, but that's all. As there's no competition, why should they prevent gamers from cheating this way?

Finally completed the game!
Yes, I am slow. But also having 2 small kids needing attention and a wife who keeps hogging the computer, so I haven't had too much time to play.

I admit to reloading... tons! Literally!
I found out, eg, that Elite orcs & Elite crossbow orcs has 1% chance to drop VL charms (54 dropped in 4912 kills). And that each bookshelf has approx 1% chance of having a spellbook (37 found in 2685 tries). Fun things to know

I had over 1.6 M gold and 53 VL charms (not counting the ones I'd already used on my eq) before leaving Ferol (ie, before visiting Dark Forest or Verdistis).
And I had a full set of 5-charm eq at the end, giving 1800 hp, 2900 mana and 150+ resistances. Fights were naturally pretty easy. Though I excuse myself with being more of an explorer than a fighter - I think I killed almost every monster/solved every quest/explored every place possible.
If/when i start over, I'll probably try a never-reload/never-buy game to make the fights a bit more challenging.

I still feel the randomness is a bit too random. Take, for example, the dragon eq. For most parts the best eq available. Imagine being new to the game and finding the Shield of the Dragon:
- Durability: 13/13
- Armor: 180
...and that's it! I would have pawned it in the nearest shop! If even bothering to pick it up. And yes, the shield can be that sucky. Same for any other special item.
The one I reloaded myself into keeping was a tad better:
- Durability: 62/62
- Charm quality: 5
- Armor: 380
- +4 defence
- +80 vitality
- +15 resist fire
- +10 resist lightning
- +2 sight
- Summon Skeleton +1
- Lockpick +1
- Summon Vermin +1
- Aura of Guarding +1

And now that I've played it through I can honestly say that if the special items didn't have this huge randomness, there'd be no need to reload, even if your luck is against you. As one of the hints suggest when the game is loading: If you find an area is too difficult for you, try another area first. One of the things I really enjoy in a game is when you have to skip parts that are too tough and get back later, after getting a bit stronger.

All in all, though, a very entertaining game! Whether you reload or not. Thank you for creating it.
And thanks to everyone for keeping this forum active.