Larian Studios Forums Divinity - Original Sin Divinity - Original Sin - General small add-on idea --- burning zombie -> skeletons

It is nice to see that finally a computer game picked up the idea to let zombies burn down to skeletons as I never forgot the utterly surprised faces of the players at our table as we used that in our self made paper game in the 80's.
Those faces were priceless

I just have a small idea to make this feature not a victim of the routine issue seen that, done that category as nothing is more deadly in games paper or computer games then lack of variation to break the quickly setting in routine.

I suggest simply to use the zombie-skeleton effect not every time they are set on fire but that there is a chance which can vary by the amount of fire damage done to the zombies that they can get burned as zombies to ashes or turn into smouldering skeletons.

And of course, just in case you not do this already, let the values of ALL monsters vary so that you might never know for sure if you face a weakling, an average or a champion version of the enemy. I ever hated when gamers could quote every value of a monster from the book for every single stat. I liked their faces when they laid bleeding on the ground before they realized they were not fighting enemies out of a clone factory.

On monster variety: Couldn't agree more! It's pretty easy to script in, and the benefits RPG-wise and challenge-wise are great. Extensive play testing can get the balance of such encounter variations right.

In accordance with that, I'd love to see your suggestion for a varied zombie-skeleton effect as well: Why not have a small percentage turn into fierce skeletons on fire, dealing fire damage and everything too.

You have to be careful with this, unless I've got the wrong idea from the previews combat is a cornerstone of the game; if players don't know what they are getting themselves in for to the extent they need to avoid combat altogether wherever possible it might make the game a lot less fun. In addition if the powers are significantly hard to predict you just end up in save scumming territory.

We know that save as often as you'd like are in, and that's more or less the rule of large CRPGs of the kind Larian are making here. In addition, we also know that a flee-button is in, and Larian said that there won't be any level-scaling, so that flee-button is for all those cases where an encounter is quickly going south.
What I deduce from this is that a slight surprise variation to various monster types would fit D:OS really well, and I love that!

What I don't love is having monster clones from which the player knows exactly what to expect, even down to the smallest differences in stats. I mean that would make sense in a turn-based game like Civilization, which I really like, and even there you have promoted units and so forth, so I think making monsters non-varied just because of save scumming is an objection fit for another game. In D:OS you are bound to run into stronger opponents, and sooner or later you will have to escape or get wiped out. I think this is one of D:OS greatest aspects.

Obviously more powerful enemies should be fairly obvious at a glance, they should not be indistinguishable from lesser ones unless you have enough Int to identify them.

While variation is good, this description gives me the shivers: "a weakling, an average or a champion version", you'll have to expand a bit on that because from where I stand that just means one hits harder/less hard than the others and has more/less hp. I instantly get flashbacks to Fallout 3's Feral Ghoul Reavers when I hear this... (that is *not* a good thing btw ;))

Slight variations in stats I can appreciate but you make it sound like there'd be huge difference, that just ends up being annoying (as above mentioned Reavers).

I'd much prefer if (generic) adversaries have a pool of abilities that make sense and which ones each instance gets varies. As such you know what something *might* be able to do, but you don't exactly know what exactly they are able to do. The bigger the pool the more interesting the combinations possible of course. I guess this would be a lot more work than just cranking up/down the hp/dps of mobs though.

BlackDragon: What a great idea!

And yep, a mere tweak to hp or str isn't enough. Also, I agree with you on simple categories of a certain critter, but I reckon Bearhug didn't mean "weakling", "average" and "champion" to be some sort of subtypes of critter, it was rather a way of arguing for variation within types of monsters.

Stabbey: True, in most cases it should be fairly obvious that the opponents are strong, but I wouldn't like to see some red colouring, for instance, for higher-level baddies or some level number when I mouse over them. I'd much prefer to find out for myself if the monsters are too bad-ass for me own good. That's a handholding that has been a bit too prevalent in CRPGs post year 2000.
I also recall fun memories in CRPGs, where opponents seemed to be weak and generic, but then they turned out to be real beasts or even demi-gods, heh.

It was suggested ages ago already. It was even mentioned in o t e of the updates.

@Kein: Indeed, and Bearhug acknowledges that in his first sentence. Then, he goes on to refine the idea below.

Hello again, I was a bit busy this weekend with making a final boss fight in another game.

It was of course not my idea of scaring players with the idea, I just used exaggerated terms (weakling, champion, etc.) to make the point easy to understand.
I am no computer game maker but published with friends a paper rpg long ago and found nothing more a fun killer when routine sets into the game.
I guess the professional term one of you used in the game would be a pool of enemy values, just to bring some variation to every monster as nothing was more annoying to have smart ass player at the table who can recite every single monster value from the handbook, from attack/defense value, armor class, hit points, etc.
We want of course no superman orc hiding between the average ones. And even there would be a leader orc and champions, I am sure you would see that they would wear some better gear as the average green grunt.

I just kept my paper games fresh by sprinkling in some variations, the enemy wearing e.g. an unusual weapon for its kind, a particular good armor, slight variations in stats, maybe even an enemy with an unusual behavior, e.g. an orc needing help to prevent his leader chopping of his head and the hero maybe can help him.
I am sure it is possible to let most monsters of one class behave more or less the same with varying values but ever having from time to time something out of the norm through a small percentage chance. That's the nice thing about computer games to do all such number crunching in the background.

But back to the flambéed zombies/skeletons. A variation of the change could be from burning skeletons which can burn and do maybe slight fire damage or even set surrounding grass on fire if it is dry.
And/or the burn and smoke that at least in dungeons without much wind they could influence visibility.
The occasional zombie might be even have a higher water content and if he gets hit by some massive fire damage that he might even explode in a messy cloud of guts and unglory bones, dishing out a bit damage on his way out
So many simple but interesting possibilities which can add a little flavor to the atmosphere.
As more stronger/unlikely a variation as less often who will see it.

Last sentence to the problem that an idea, posting was already around, well. I am a very busy werebear and cannot dig through the fast expanding forum every time, so please bear with me
But as long people leave a reply what they think about the idea and one of the Larian reads it then they can decide if they pick the idea or not. I think they might like at least some as you can tell they are old school rpg players as well with their love to detail and their humor

What video has this with burning zombies? I haven't seen that in a long time.

Though it is surprising, I'm not surprised that Larian came up with such an awesome idea. They are geniuses after all!

It was not Larian's Idea, but a suggestion/idea that come from a fan.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/larianstudios/divinity-original-sin/posts/457663

Oh wow that is really cool. It isn't every day you get to play a product that the community helped build via community think-tank.

Thinking of burning zombies turning into skeletons, I just came to think of tar!

Perhaps hot tar could be an earth-elemental spell: You get to cover opponents in hot tar, which get slowed and also get burn damages from the hot tar.

If you then add fire to that tar, the opponent is in real trouble, because tar only burns when it is in liquid form, and then it bursts into a whopping ball of fire. Ouch!

A more benign alternative is throwing a sack of feathers on top of the tar victim and you have a demeaning classic.