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#473302 19/08/13 03:43 PM
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Preface

I want Dragon Commander to be a game I love, but I can't because some things let it down so much for me that it just kills the game. One of them is Act III, and another is the forced choices, but I'll leave those as other people have discussed them.

What I want to talk about is the combat section, and why I hope that Dragon Commander will eventually be modifiable to an extent that would allow us to change how the combat works.

The problem, for me, is that the combat sections feel like a MOBA with an RTS interface tacked on top of it. You have your hero character, you have your capture/choke points, and you have an enemy AI which works in blobs and follows pre-defined paths. If I were to ignore the interface of Dragon Commander's combat sections and look at how it actually plays, I'd have to say that it's much closer to DOTA than it is to Wacraft III.

The RTS element feels hastily bolted on top. Whilst some people might like it (and that's fine for them, it truly is), I don't. I find playing a MOBA with an RTS interface to be anywhere between jarring and vexing.

Now, let me say in big, bold letters before I'm lambasted that I don't want Larian to change the base game. I'm just spilling my headthinks here so that Larian can read them and thus hopefully open more of the game up to modding. That's my goal. I don't want to change the game for those who like it as it currently is. I have no desire to do that.

I've spent a long, long time sitting, thinking, considering, and just mumbling to myself and jotting things down regarding how the combat sections could be improved, and I think I've achieved something of a base draft, and I genuinely do believe it would play better. The game does feel like a MOBA, the AI behaves like a MOBA, and as such I'd make it more like one, but not entirely so. I hope you'll actually read what I have to say.

Still, I know RTS fans can be precious about their genre. I'm an RTS and 4X fan myself, and I've seen people being chased off with pitchforks and torches for the simplest suggestions. So I do feel the need to keep repeating myself: I don't want Larian to change the base game, I just want modders to be able to do that. Choice is the ruler of the day.

So here's what I'd do/help others do if Dragon Commander was modifiable.

Battle Sections: Rexux

I genuinely want Dragon Commander to be a good game which is enjoyable for a lot of people. The problem is is that I've read critic reviews from around the Internet by everyone from hardcore RTS fans to casual players, all complaining about how the game doesn't feel right, and how micromanaging the units feels more like busywork than strategy.

Here's how I'd go about fixing that problem, to make it more enjoyable for myself and for those people:
  • Each battle will have an AI-controlled enemy dragon.
There are now multiple types of dragon about, as suggested by the setting, and each dragon has its own ability set. There will be a stable of different dragons, and one will be randomly selected for each fight, so every encounter has an enemy dragon present.

The victory conditions of the fight have changed (see the section below about flying fortresses), so dealing with the enemy dragon as a factor is very important. You won't be able to ignore either the enemy units or the enemy dragon, and this would lead to a more strategic style of play, where you have to think on the fly (so to speak).
  • Player unit construction is done by an allied AI.
In a battle, the construction of units is left down to the AI. What units the AI can make will be restricted to both research, recruits, and support. Yet the actual decisions of which units to build on the battlefield will be handled by an allied AI.
  • Player units are handled by an allied AI.
What this means is that an allied AI will be responsible for moving player units, attacking, and choosing what powers to use. What powers it has available is, of course, decided by the research done by the player. The allied AI would behave similarly to how the enemy AI does in the game right now, but both allied and enemy AI would assign a cadre of useful units to their respective dragon.

Also, if it could work, there could be a button that would toggle the allied AI between offensive and defensive modes. In defensive mode, the AI would build new units and distribute them between outposts, but not move them out into the field, it would concentrate on fortification.
  • Building construction is still handled by the player, but from dragon view.
Part of the problem with Dragon Commander for me is that the RTS element and interface feels tacked on and pointless, it feels contrary to what would be an enjoyable game experience. So, instead, a player would perhaps aim at a 'building socket' and then select which type to create with a hotkey.

Perhaps aiming specifically at these would override the hotbar if possible so that the options could be clearly seen.
  • Have both the Raven and an enemy flying fortress on the battlefield as victory goals.
What I mean by this is that both the player and the enemy will have a flying fortress each. The flying fortress allows the player to resurrect, so without them the dragon is out of the picture. Destroying a flying fortress is a victory condition.

Each flying fortress has its own offences and defences, offered up by a cadre of flying support units (miniforts), which provide offensive and defensive support. It would be difficult to take out the fortress without handling some of these, first, and depending on factors such as how many units a fortress can produce (see the section below about recruitment stations), the fortress could be harder or easier to defeat.

Once the flying support is removed, though, the fortress is largely a sitting duck and can be taken down without too much effort. The flying fortresses would have some attacks to their name, but they wouldn't be very powerful.

Flying fortresses can be engaged by both ground units, flying units, and the dragon. On both sides.
  • Capturing recruitment stations (dome-shaped buildings) is important for victory.
How many of these you have changes a number of factors. Thus it's important to help your allied AI capture these, whenever possible.

They increase the production rate of flying supports for your fortress, they increase the sturdiness of your fortress by a small amount, and they decrease the timer you have to endure before respawning by a non-trivial amount. The more you have of them, the better your fortress functions. So whilst taking out a fortress is now the victory condition, holding these is necessary for said victory.

Each player starts off with their own recruitment stations to give the fortresses some support.
  • The generals have their own dragon-forms.
The point here is that each general is able to morph into a dragon. You still have to pay for htem, but you can opt to control them on the field. Each general has their own abilities as their own dragon, which is different than the player abilities, these come as standard and you gain more and more of them as the general improves.

You can still tell a general to auto-resolve, but you're never forced to, the win or lose can still come down to your skill and your ability to control the dragons of your generals.

And that's it.

Feel free to lambast me, but I just want Dragon Commander to be a good and enjoyable game. I can see it has potential, and it infuriates me that that potential isn't at all met. It squanders it and flounders when it could be a truly beautiful thing, a game I'd love eternally and speak well of to everyone.

I can't do that with it in its current state, though. but if mods were available to fix it, then I could go from my opinion of Fallout 3, to my opinion of Fallout 3 with mods. Which is essentially that I can see how it could be a good game, to this actually is a good game.

I'm begging Larian to make the game modifiable enough for these changes to be made by modders. I don't want to change anyone's base game, I just want a better game for those who perceive the problems with the combat sections.

I am a long time Larian fan, and it genuinely bums me out that I have to be so negative about Dragon Commander. But I can see the glistening gem of a game it was supposed to be, somewhere in there. I just want to see that realised, rather than the game languishing in obscurity for being a could-have-been.

Last edited by WearyWolf; 19/08/13 03:44 PM.
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Oh. It's you, vagrant werewolf.

If you think the RTS AI is just a mindless unit spammer, increase the difficulty. See how far spamming a blob of units gets you then. Try the Custom Campaign settings. Up the Recruit multiplier to 2x and suddenly each unit you bring and each unit you make is a more important.


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While I think you are being harsh on the game for similar reasons to Stabbey I would also like to play a mod with similar tweaks to those you suggest. The only thing I'm wary of is the Dragon v Dragon Combat doesn't feel great to me and I'd much rather face an enemy with a large standing army and moderately powerful hero unit than another dragon.

I have no idea if any level of mods will happen though, but I'm encouraged by the prospect of custom campaigns. More variables would be of course be nice (build times, AI bonus gold #, AI bonus gold %, research costs and so on) and mod tools would be awesome but I think there's plenty to enjoy as is.

Oh and Custom campaign gets rid of act III so there's that at least.

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Much as I hate to say it you contridict yourself werewolf one of your steam posts says the rock paper scissors doesnt work yet you want Flying fortresses attackable by ground which also would include sea as they lie on the same plane .

While your ideas may sound fun to you if made it likly wouldnt be
Many decisions seem a good idea in concept but fall apeart once tested
And im afraid your solutions and mods would also. Primarly as the remove control from player.
Which other then one thematic decision dc does not do you have control over abilitys movement and construction the fact you need to be in human form is a balence decision.

While your free to your opinions posting everywhere doesnt earn you any allies.
And others are free to respectfully refute


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