Larian Studios Forums Divinity - Original Sin Divinity - Original Sin - General Concerns about respawns

As a side note, allow me to contradict you Witcher I (enhanced edition) does have respawns.

"Go out of your way to "clean up" all enemies. In some areas the monsters will respawn again and again. E.g. in Chapter I the drowners near the river (at night), the ghouls in crypts, and the barghest on the Outskirt paths at night. "

(source: http://witcher.wikia.com/wiki/The_Witcher_FAQ)

It was enough to drive me crazy so that I eventually gave up somewhere in the second chapter. Maybe it becomes better later in the game.

Edit: I am of course not talking about barghests which are quest-related so that their respawning is completely plausible. But it was for me just too repetitive to have to fight all the drowners, drowned deads etc. in the swamp area in Old Vizima... again and again.

Hmm, indeed, you're right. It never bothered me though as respawns only happened in places where they made sense (eg. city at night). But due to the insane loading times and crashes caused by the DRM in the original edition I avoided revisiting areas many times as much as possible.

But the combat system in TW1 was at least fully functional from the start, so the (in my case: limited) extra combat didn't bother me all that much, unlike in TW2 where combat was a real chore. (though just moving around is annoyingly clunky in both TW1 as well as TW2)

Was kind of hoping for FF Tactics like random battles... There were specific areas that could be revisited. That's the reason why I dislike the Fire Emblem series due to it's fixed linear campaign.

Actually there weren't much turn-based RPGs which had finite amount of encounters.

Here comes another problem. Just on example of Yendorian Tales III, which had limited monsters. Sure you gained level-up, but area is cleared and you move to next one, where mobs are much stronger, so you don't feel like your characters progress at all, you feel it more like game allowing you to not fall way too far behind monsters (and even with cheating, you could fall way too far behind mobs in final areas of game).

Limited mobs might also be limiting factor for encounters, so you can't design them assuming your party had such-and-such stat/skill choices, thus there will be sacrifice to challenge (excluding gimmick approaches). Otherwise it could end like Yendorian Tales III, where if you didn't strictly follow Restoration (in-game cluebook) and if you weren't good at metagaming you would start having unwinnable battles long before reaching end of the game.

As Ellary said, sometimes you want to revisit older areas for this or other reason (even if it is just to relive that dungeon, without denizens it would feel dead, and/or to avenge dungeon denizens for giving you so much frustrations on your first visits).

All in all, I am greatly looking towards playing D:OS. No-respawn is very disappointing factor, but hopefully it will be possible to "fix" by modding or some in-game features (like same option which would switch respawns on and off).

It sounds like Yendorian Tales III is a shitty game.

You said you played DD, but why would you revisit old spots like the crypts of Aleroth again?
You would easily kill every enemy with one hit and you would get no xp. If you played through DD you should know that there are more than enough enemies and that larian isnt forcing you into taking certain talents. Sure its easier with restoration but get the skill like 2 or three times for free and you can win without it.

I cant really understand why its disappointing its like being disappointed when games like diablo or titan quest are not turnbased and have only fight-based skills.

With all due respect to everyone's gaming styles, preferences and opinions, I'd like to point out that "respawning" implies "level scaling" (unless someone actually wants to keep fighting stuff that they've out-levelled 5 hours ago in the game?).

While it works to a good effect in a couple of very *select* action-heavy RPGs, like Diablo or rogue-likes, it does not so for the majority of story/quest-heavy RPGs, to which most people probably associate D:OS once they intend to purchase it.

See Oblivion (and Skyrim to a lesser degree) as a prime example to illustrate that poorly executed "level scaling" = horrible, unenjoyable mess for everyone.

Otherwise said, I can understand and even sympathize with people that enjoy exploring in cRPGs (I do as well!), but I'd really appreciate if Larian would avoid the above pitfall in their games.

I am positive there will be plenty of exploring in D:OS, enough to cater to people that enjoy that kind of activity in their games, and keep them ultimately satisfied as well.

IMHO - respawning is detrimental to most story driven RPGs. See: Infinity engine games and other A/D&D games.
I believe the dynamic of story driven (non-Action) RPGs is about linking the growth of your character to discrete steps taken either directly relevant to the story or on the periphery of the narrative. Admittedly even Infinity engine games included a limited opportunity to create random encounters during travel between locations, but these events were wholly irrelevant and became only minor inconveniences mid-way through the game. If D:Original Sin inherits this feature, it won't be to the game's detriment.

My personal opinion is that respawning is a trait of Action RPGs like Diablo and MMORPGs which are about loot farming rather than overarching story.

In more advanced RPGs, where the role playing has a more significant component, story mission rewards outweigh random loot or monster drops. To those familiar with NWN2:Mask of the Betrayer, BG2:Throne of Bhaal or Planescape Torment you would have experienced, significantly in the case of the latter, that killing an army of Baatezu pales reward-wise to rubbing and absorbing the Bronze Sphere. I believe a story-driven experience analogous to old school RPGs if implemented in D:Original Sin would outweigh the time spent implementing mechanics for grinding for loot.

Additionally - I'd like to point out that these mechanics are not unique to Black Isle / Bioware / Interplay, but that Troika (e.g. Arcanum, Pool of Radiance) had a similar approach. And further were also successfully implemented in non North American RPGs - e.g. the Gothic series - a game where nothing respawned at random (this to present a counterpoint to Elder Scrolls mechanics), and the game was enhanced as a result.

As an aside - one of the best experiences I had in Gothic was as a very low level character exploiting the terrain to jump to a hard-to-reach ledge and spend 5 mins peppering a Troll with arrows. The troll had no recourse and died. I levelled up (maybe even twice!), and got some "phat lewtz". The game for me was enhanced by this clever exploitation and trickery, not diminished. Because I would take more time to explore the area and find "cheap shot kills" to gain early rewards, rather than if the trolls respawned: "Oh, I'm now 10 levels higher than you, I'm just going to mow you down for random garbage".

I would like some selected respawns. If an area will be revisited quite a number of times it feels odd to find it always empty. I would like a random small encounter just to keep me in the "game world" and not remind me that, "oh, must have killed all the creatures the developers placed on this map".

I'm okay with no respawns. I wouldn't mind optional challenge dungeons that were repeatable, though.

yes this..respawns + TB are a big nono for me

but repeatable dungeon would be cool

I think you are suggesting a procedural generated dungeon (or in other words infinite dungeons )

No, a repeatable dungeon is not the same as a procedurally generated dungeon. Procedurally generated dungeons are enough work beyond the scope of the other things that I wouldn't ask for that. I was thinking of a dungeon that has the same layout (and possibly the same monsters), but you can do it again if you finish it (which should be really hard).

It's just a thought, though, not really critical. Modders can do that. Heck, I'm pretty sure that it might even be possible to make a dungeon that has a different configuration of enemies in it depending on what flag gets set to give you access to the dungeon.

What do you mind by that? Ability to enter the same dungeon with monsters re=spawned or random dungeons?

I personally quite dislike the latter. Random generation and shameless copy $ paste is why I hate Diablo and some other games of different genre as well. The worst kind of "artificial gamelength". Cheap content.

And yet it sells... a lot.

Again it is a case of some don't want it, some others want it, the rest want different somethings in-between. The best answer to that is "target audience".


As for the matter of respawning, it appears that the majority wants a pretty persistent world, but wouldn't mind some exceptions that make sense.

Sure, if Larian wasn't to be another Bioware or Bethesda and mass-produce Casual Effect (tm) or The Fallout Scrolls X. The casual cattle sure as hell will purchase another casual and streamlined RPG for "math is hard" people.

Altho, the existence of D:DC kinda hints that's not what they want.

please Larian, if you read that, DON'T !!! your games are amazing, and we have sooooo many example of small guys or company making wonderful things and which betray themselves to grow !!!
stay on your tracks