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veteran
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OP
veteran
Joined: Jan 2014
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It's entirely possible that I'm missing something, but for the life of me I can't find any kind of tool-tip or notice that warns me when I'm about to perform an action that will offend an NPC. In this case I'm referring specifically to stealing.
As an example, let's look at the first town the characters arrive at. Prior to arriving at the town you'll come across a number of crates. When you go through these crates (and remove items from them) nobody seems to mind. However, in this case (usually) nobody is around to notice. That said, you can swipe a journal and some supplies right from the two tipsy guards at the first bridge and they don't seem to care.
When you arrive at the first town, there are crates near the gate/entrance and several people standing near them. When you go through these crates (and remove items from them) nobody seems to mind.
Further down the street is an NPC worker and two bulls, and he appears to be moving back and forth between a stack of crates and the rear of a cart behind the bulls, apparently either unloading or loading supplies. When you go through these containers (and remove items from them) he doesn't seem to mind.
Between these last two examples is a man standing near a table that is peppered with building supplies. There is also a container near the table. When you touch any of these items you're scolded for attempted theft. This even happens if you try to touch the items when this particular NPC is down the dock attempting to save the burning boat - he'll still scold you (from a screen away).
The problem is there's no warning informing the player that he's about to offend someone through his actions. There's nothing identifying ownership. Sure, we could say "use common sense; don't steal and you won't offend anyone" but the problem is that there seems to be no continuity between examples. Why is rummaging through items near some NPCs perfectly fine, but other times it isn't?
Skyrim, for example, clearly marks what is theft and what isn't *before* you touch the item. When you mouse over an object or container in Skyrim, it will say "steal" in bright red text if you run the risk of offending someone through your actions.
I think it would be nice to see something similar implemented here, even if it's just changing the icon that appears when you mouse over an interactable item in a way that warns the player that he's about to stick his hands where they don't belong.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Jan 2014
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If you put your mouse over it, the hand will be RED. This indicates this will offend the NPC.
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member
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member
Joined: Apr 2013
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Personally, I do think the difference in color could be greater, as it isn't always easily noticeable. Also, as it are shades of red, I imagine colorblind people won't be able to see any difference at all. 
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Jan 2009
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I agree that the change of the normal icon from white to yellow wasn't the most helpful for differentiating taking and stealing.
Maybe a new icon, a red-coloured grasping hand instead of the same icon you use for normal interactions would be helpful to differentiate for colour-blind people.
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Moderator Emeritus
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Moderator Emeritus
Joined: Dec 2012
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It's entirely possible that I'm missing something, but for the life of me I can't find any kind of tool-tip or notice that warns me when I'm about to perform an action that will offend an NPC. In this case I'm referring specifically to stealing.
As an example, let's look at the first town the characters arrive at. Prior to arriving at the town you'll come across a number of crates. When you go through these crates (and remove items from them) nobody seems to mind. However, in this case (usually) nobody is around to notice. That said, you can swipe a journal and some supplies right from the two tipsy guards at the first bridge and they don't seem to care.
When you arrive at the first town, there are crates near the gate/entrance and several people standing near them. When you go through these crates (and remove items from them) nobody seems to mind.
Further down the street is an NPC worker and two bulls, and he appears to be moving back and forth between a stack of crates and the rear of a cart behind the bulls, apparently either unloading or loading supplies. When you go through these containers (and remove items from them) he doesn't seem to mind.
Between these last two examples is a man standing near a table that is peppered with building supplies. There is also a container near the table. When you touch any of these items you're scolded for attempted theft. This even happens if you try to touch the items when this particular NPC is down the dock attempting to save the burning boat - he'll still scold you (from a screen away).
The problem is there's no warning informing the player that he's about to offend someone through his actions. There's nothing identifying ownership. Sure, we could say "use common sense; don't steal and you won't offend anyone" but the problem is that there seems to be no continuity between examples. Why is rummaging through items near some NPCs perfectly fine, but other times it isn't?
Skyrim, for example, clearly marks what is theft and what isn't *before* you touch the item. When you mouse over an object or container in Skyrim, it will say "steal" in bright red text if you run the risk of offending someone through your actions.
I think it would be nice to see something similar implemented here, even if it's just changing the icon that appears when you mouse over an interactable item in a way that warns the player that he's about to stick his hands where they don't belong. It is pretty hard to spot, but if the item does not belong to someone, then the cursor color is yellow/ gold. So you can take these items without offending someone. If, on the other hand, an item belongs to someone, then the cursor color is orange. So, it indicates that taking these items will be classified as stealing. Edit: Never mind it^^, three people have already given the answer while I was typing^^
Last edited by Elwyn; 20/01/14 09:31 PM.
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veteran
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OP
veteran
Joined: Jan 2014
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If you put your mouse over it, the hand will be RED. This indicates this will offend the NPC. This is not actually true. I actually thought this was the case myself, but it's not. There are two colors: white and orange (in the case of crates it's a little more red as one side of the box icon is shaded darker). Mousing over nearly every (but not all) items will show an orange tool-tip, including crates. Once you open them, the icon turns white. I would love to show you a screenshot as an example, but for whatever reason both Steam and Fraps remove the little "hand" or "box" cursor-icon when a screenshot is taken. You can, however, go test it yourself or take my word for it: In the first town in the Legion warehouse is a guard (Sergeant Curtius) guarding a door. Next to him is a table with an apple and a piece of parchment. Both show an orange hand when you mouse over them - there is no difference between the two cues. If you take the apple, nobody cares. If you take the parchment, the Legion guards attack you for attempting to steal. Edit: One moment, I got the cursor to remain in a fraps video. I'll take frames from that and posts the screenshots in a few minutes. Edit 2: Here we go. I've overlapped the two pictures so the icons are as close as possible. Again, if you take the apple nobody cares. If you take the parchment, the guards attack you for stealing. There are no differences in color between the two icons.
Last edited by Gyson; 20/01/14 10:48 PM.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Jan 2014
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The parchment is always there however the apple seems to be a random spawn they don't care about. Perhaps something to be looked at. Aside from that one case I haven't had any issues at all.
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veteran
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OP
veteran
Joined: Jan 2014
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The parchment is always there however the apple seems to be a random spawn they don't care about. Perhaps something to be looked at. Aside from that one case I haven't had any issues at all. Actually, there are other items like that in the room. I only checked briefly but there are bottles on a table nearby; one could be taken without retribution, the other leads to you being attacked. That said, upon closer inspection I am seeing a difference in crate icon colors: The one on the left nobody cares about. The one on the right earns you a beating. Different color icon. Yet, here, the one on the right nobody cares about. The one on the left earns you a beating. Same color icon. So, the problem is we have a hand icon for picking up objects, and a crate icon for inspecting containers. The crate icon can be white (once inspected), gold (if not inspected and safe), and orange (if not inspected and unsafe). The hand icon can be white (for no apparent reason, and if safe), some hybrid of yellow and orange (if safe), and some hybrid of yellow and orange (if unsafe). That needs to be straightened out.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2013
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So, the problem is we have a hand icon for picking up objects, and a crate icon for inspecting containers. The crate icon can be white (once inspected), gold (if not inspected and safe), and orange (if not inspected and unsafe). The hand icon can be white (for no apparent reason, and if safe), some hybrid of yellow and orange (if safe), and some hybrid of yellow and orange (if unsafe).
That needs to be straightened out.
I know they did some work on the property tags from the earlier build. There might still be some that aren't tagged as owned properly. Before there were things that would clearly be stealing but they didn't care one way or the other if you took it. But they fixed some of them.
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veteran
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OP
veteran
Joined: Jan 2014
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Maybe they should also put a more obvious difference between the colors. Green for "go", red for "no". 
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Jan 2014
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Maybe they should also put a more obvious difference between the colors. Green for "go", red for "no". That's no good for people who are red-green colourblind, which a surprisingly large number of people are. White/Orange or Yellow/Orange is probably fine, the problem now seems to be more that everything but crates gets the same colour.
"But I don't want to go among mad people." "Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" "You must be, or you wouldn't have come here."
Public Key ID: 057420A1
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jan 2011
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One of my top issues. Sometimes you are trying to click on a moving NPC and oops, you just clicked on an item and then it's a fight you never intended. I've played enough games like this, in this form at this time, something isn't quite polished enough here.
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Support
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Support
Joined: Mar 2003
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if you take the apple nobody cares. They do in my game. It was an early save; maybe they cut you some slack on the small stuff if you've done a few good deeds? Or it just isn't working consistently.
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veteran
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OP
veteran
Joined: Jan 2014
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if you take the apple nobody cares. They do in my game. It was an early save; maybe they cut you some slack on the small stuff if you've done a few good deeds? Or it just isn't working consistently. Horrible quality gif, but I was throwing this together quickly. I pick up the apple first, no reaction. Then I pick up the paper, and get the "prepare to die" speech:
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Support
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Support
Joined: Mar 2003
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I believed you, I just meant that that behaviour is not consistent (they can react to stealing the apple, even if they don't in your game, for whatever reason).
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veteran
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OP
veteran
Joined: Jan 2014
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I believed you, I just meant that that behaviour is not consistent (they can react to stealing the apple, even if they don't in your game, for whatever reason).
Maybe it's a bug and they're supposed to react all the time (assuming they see you). I would actually prefer that since (once fixed) it would resolve my complaint with consistency.
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