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#480425 28/01/14 02:59 AM
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Stabbey Offline OP
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Sure, they’re not as fear-inspiring as your good-old two-handers. Their damage output looks kinda pathetic, in fact. But there are two important things: 1) They have an AP cost of only 2. Their damage might suck, but they can keep it up all day. 2) They’re the only weapons that can backstab (by default).

As long as you keep your dagger at about your level, the dagger is surprisingly effective. In fact, if you asked me what weapon to specialize in if I wanted to do huge amounts of damage, I’d pick the dagger over a 2H sword. Daggers AP cost is half that of a 2H weapon. If you save up 14 AP and are next to an enemy, you can attack 3 times with a 2H weapon, but 7 times with a dagger.

You might object that you have to use some AP to move into position, but not always. With a wizard who knows Teleport, and the right turn order, you can save AP up for a turn and move your rogue right behind an enemy with full AP.

Just keep your daggers up to date. I bought a normal-damage level 5 Push Dagger and it was pretty effective, even against the undead (who have piercing resistance).

The one big problem with Daggers is that the skill "Assassin: Backstab with any weapon" exists, which I think steals the role of daggers too much.


Unfortunately, I fear that a nerf is coming, partly because of my experience with The Best Dagger Ever.


The Best Dagger Ever

I found a hilarious magic push dagger (Brutal push Dagger of Storms) that dropped from a boss (PP), which did 32-52 Air damage a hit. It only had one modifier: AP: 1

Yes, that means that it only costs one AP to attack with it.

I faced the Caesar Crab boss. Roderick my mage and Scarlett my Rogue saved all their AP on their first turn, leaving Jahan and Madora to damage the crab on turn 1. I don’t remember how much HP it had to start out with (I think 686, maybe), but I know that after the turn was over, it only had 450 left. Then I had Roderick Teleport a fully-charged Scarlett to the back of the crab. I didn’t get it quite right, she had to burn one of her 15 AP to get into position, leaving her with 14. I couldn’t see how much damage she did per strike, but you’ll get the idea:

She killed the crab… and still had EIGHT Action points reserved at the end. So an average of 75 damage a hit. With better positioning of the teleport, and 15 AP saved up… that could have done ~1125 damage in one turn - and this was Air damage, which is resisted by fewer enemies.

I was level eight when I found it. That dagger only required level 6 and 3 points into Single-handed weapons.

I get the feeling that after a couple patches, daggers like that won't be around anymore. Specifically, I bet the "AP: 1" modifier will be gone.

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Sweet story about your uber dagger find. That is just crazy amounts of damage!

I don't think that the Assassin skill you mentioned is entirely a bad thing for the dagger weapon in general. You still have to figure there is a much higher AP cost for using "any other weapon" while trying to backstab. Though, with your technique of teleport and then backstabbing, it is possible that might be entirely too OP with the higher damage on all other weapons that would have backstab utility.

What would you suggest for the skill then, to have it removed or altered? Like 1 hand weapons only?


edit: If there isn't already (didn't dig to hard) but there could possibly be a modifier for mobs or certain enemies that are unable to be backstabbed, or have really high resistance to it or something, maybe even an Auto-Counter to a backstab attempt (hightened senses etc). That could counteract the OP'ness of a "Backstab with any weapon skill" character maybe? Just a thought.

Last edited by Xerolith; 28/01/14 01:44 PM.
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Best Dagger Ever Update:

After saving AP (hiding and healing) for a couple of turns, I was able to Phoenix Dive into the next room of the cult dungeon and kill three (wounded) enemies in one turn, even though I had to use AP to move between targets.


Originally Posted by Xerolith
Sweet story about your uber dagger find. That is just crazy amounts of damage!


The scary part is that the dagger was two levels below my character and how little Single-handed it required.

Quote
I don't think that the Assassin skill you mentioned is entirely a bad thing for the dagger weapon in general. You still have to figure there is a much higher AP cost for using "any other weapon" while trying to backstab. Though, with your technique of teleport and then backstabbing, it is possible that might be entirely too OP with the higher damage on all other weapons that would have backstab utility.

What would you suggest for the skill then, to have it removed or altered? Like 1 hand weapons only?


I think removing the skill might be the answer, but I should try making a 2H rogue with Assassin first.

Quote
edit: If there isn't already (didn't dig to hard) but there could possibly be a modifier for mobs or certain enemies that are unable to be backstabbed, or have really high resistance to it or something, maybe even an Auto-Counter to a backstab attempt (hightened senses etc). That could counteract the OP'ness of a "Backstab with any weapon skill" character maybe? Just a thought.


That wouldn't counteract "Backstab with any weapon skill", it would counteract backstabs with a dagger as well.

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This reminds me of something - if I remember correctly, single-handed axes only require 2AP. Wouldn't that make it the weapon of choice when compared to swords, which take 3AP to swing? Of course, you can't backstab with them.

Will have to test this when the patch drops this week, provided my game doesn't shit itself this time.

Last edited by Bittereinder; 28/01/14 04:41 PM.
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Ive only found 1 axe that was 2AP. The rest Ive seen are all 3.


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