Larian Studios Forums Divinity - Original Sin Divinity Original Sin - Beta feedback on the skills & stats system

Hi, I've played a lot this past few days (mainly in coop) and would like to share my opinion on the current stat/skill/class system with the DOS alpha tester community.

1/ AP generation
I think the constitution nerf is a good thing, it was clearly to strong (lot a HP & AP), especially for warriors who only had to invest a few points in str (to equip weapons & armors) and toss every remaining points into cons.

Now those warriors need to invest a few point into speed to boost AP generation. This will also boost their movement speed stat.... which is still useless given they only move by using phoenix dive & charge (walking in combat is way to costly if you're wearing an heavy armor... at least early in the game when investing in Armor specialist is not a top priority).

So... no more OP tanky warrior, good.

[exemple] 9AP for 4.1 meter VS jump across the screen + insane damage for 4 AP :




Now if you were planning to build an hybrid... you're screwed.
I was very interested in the "cleric" archetype and was focusing on str / cons / int in the previous version. Now you have to drop a few point into speed but leveling 4 stats doesn't seems to be a good idea. You'll need str to equip armors & weapons, a few point in cons since you're going to "tank" quite a bit. You'll also need to put point in int in order to cast your regen for a decent AP cost and not be totally outheal by the mage. I don't think we'll have enough point remaining to boost the speed stat...

One way to boost drastically the AP generation is to invest 15 skills point in "way of the warrior" (WotW lvl 5 => +4 AP regen, equivalent to 8 stat points in speed). It's really helping but it feels mandatory for every class (even mage !) and don't feels right.



2/ mages & spells

It feels like the only way to build a mage is to toss every single point in int. It increase damage / healing AND is way more AP efficient than speed. You'll also want to level way of the warrior to lvl 5...

Now, i think that the mage damages are relatively low. Sure you can oneshot those lvl 3 undead with a fireball (low fire resistance \o/) and have "good" aoe damage... :



...but when it come to single target damage (aka boss) mage are quite useless. Removing the cooldown on those low level single target DD (flare for example) would be a good way to give mages an "auto attack". I'm aware that spamming those 50 dmg spell for 1AP (with high int) would be a bit OP and would bring mages to the same level as rogue / archer / warrior but having to rotate those high AP cost / high cooldown spells (fireball, chain lightening, etc) on boss in order to deal damage feel wrong (and you will probably BBQ your entire team in the process since the spell radius indicator is still off).

Also, a number of spells are bugged (radius indicator, watershield bring your HP to 49% instead of 149%, the new fire spell [can't remember the name] can hit 3 times the same target, etc.)

note : is there a cap on how much int can increase a spell efficiency ? Regen is healing for 55hp with 9 int... same number with 16 int. (with the water skill lvl 5 in both case).





note 2 : choosing a magic related talent (pyromaniac for example) if you already have the corresponding magic skill lvl 5 is a waste. Sure, most of the "experience" player won't put more than 6 / 10 point in an "element" but it's not really "noob friendly".

3/ Rogue & backstab

I'm quite happy with rogue now. With the right number of points in dex, a few points in const and a lot of speed, they feel very "roguish". High mobility, a bit squishy and insane single target damage... borderline OP :

lvl 6 "rogue" :


Now just a few things :
- not having any combat skill for a rogue (dex base skill for dague wielder) may feel a bit boring in the long run.
- maybe nerf the backstab multiplicator for 2 handed weapons ?

4/ Game difficulty

We never used a henchman (bugged in coop... or was it fix?) and still managed to finish the available content quite easily with many different builds / classes... and no, nerfing the AP generation / cost is, in my opinion, not a good idea for improving the game difficulty

That's all for now !

Do not hesitate to share your opinion on the current build !
What do you think of the last changes ?

cheers !

Loug'

PS : will edit the post with more info / screenshot if i find the time to do so

The level progression is going to be changed, and the difficulty increased.

yippie!!

Hi,

Any idea of whar type of change we will see ?

I've add a few screenshots

No details have been mentioned. The easiest way to adjust the level progression would be to reduce the experience gotten from opponents and/or exploration. For difficulty, there will (eventually) be more special abilities added for bosses (like the recent change at the lighthouse), and presumably additions and improvements to enemy AI in general.

I don't like this changes!

Slower Level Up means not so many points for character changing.

More difficulty? Hmm, as I heard, there was an "easy fights" button in the final version, so this is not important for me, I hope.

From my experience the questing is hard and vague and the combat is really easy. Especially warriors are strong. I often used ram + whirlwind + dustdevil in the same turn and that already took out most of monsters haha. The small fireball did just as much damage as the whirlwind ability of the warrior, plus after casting fireball, there weren't many AP left on my mage and he needs to wait 3 or 4 turns to get it back. I still don't see why you need a ranger in your party, because the warriors at the moment have so many gapclosures, like ram or phoenix dive. I noticed the charm or freeze knockdown tries from the opponents almost never work, the only one time a charm did work, I just had to reload. I have learned 'way of the ranger' on my mage just to learn the resurrect skill. Because sometimes my partymembers will die from standing on traps I just warned them for hahahaha. If you have the right gear and have the right party setup and skills, you should be able to easily win fight where the enemies are same or lower lvl. Btw I still think 2H warriors are strongest partymembers as for now.

I'm playing a Rogue/Ranger combination, and not having magical healing does change the dynamic quite a bit. I'm using potions now, as well as sometimes crafting food items.

It also means that I have natural access to the Resurrect spell via Way of the Ranger. Funny enough, I've actually used that a couple times to kill party members who were low on health and revive them to save a potion.




No, you get the same number of points, it just takes a bit longer. Right now, you level up way too fast - level 3 after 3 fights, for example.



That was at the very end of the September 27 Twitch TV Q&A stream, and I think that was a joke. The good news is that combat is not fast-paced so there's time to consider moves.

Yeah, they should tune down the exp gain, maybe remove the quick-witted talent as well. Also let you start with max 7 str/dex/int. Maybe give only 2 points to freely distribute. 11 str at lvl 1 is really broken. This will already balance most of the combat.

The second thing they should balance is the cookie cutter aspect.
-Remove the heal from the wizard, this will make people actually start to choose the cleric, as for now the wizard has a flare, a teleport and a heal. Which makes everyone favor the wizard over the cleric.
-Primary stats are far too broken, not only does it give incredible stats, it's also the requirement for higher lvl equipment. I do think the warrior needs some con and speed, but the best option seems something like +10 str, +2 con, +2speed. Suppose I want to make a tank warrior who doesn't do dmg, I still need to do the same build, simply because the armor requires the str.
-Maybe introduce a new survivor ability to actually clean traps. Because all the traps I found, I'm saying careful a trap, but all the people behind me seem to blindly step into this trap.
-Please make mix-class more viable, it's my favourite path to go.

If it takes longer to Level up I can't use the points before the figths, to skill up my mage to use "create fire elemetal"!
I'll do every quest in the town to Level up, before I take a look out of the doors... and I run back to the legionares in the first figths, do use their help. (I ressurect the poor legionares after figth.)

My tactics is, if I see enemies before the see me, I create fire and ice elemental and send them to the enemies, before the combat begin, so I can use an other create elemental spell after 2 rounds. And my ranger has the time to use his bow, while the enemies walk on Ice or fire createt from the broken elementals.


No someone write this here in the forum about 4 weeks ago, so I hope this will come. (Every DD game before has such an easy button! In DD2 are god mode Cheats! I think the Larains will do something to help an poor figther like me, without killing the fun of the hard players!)

I can't use every point in figthing skills! I need also repair, pickpocketing, lockpickiing, craft .... There are so many things to do. Figthing should be as easy and quick as possible! More time for looking in chests and talk with pets.

Mages do not get enough AP per turn (at low levels) to be able to handle an entire encounter on their own. Elementals are not going to cut it - especially how many points you need just to unlock them.

Once again, your problem is that you need to improve at the combat and figure out how to use melee characters. Don't rush right in, advance cautiously - let the enemies waste their AP coming to you. Use terrain for cover from ranged attackers. Learn when to use potions and when you can do without.

Stay out of the woods, West of the city is where the more level-appropriate enemies are.

It's true that non-combat abilities aren't as great-looking as combat arts, but you don't need every non-combat attribute on every character. Especially not Pickpocket and Repair, which doesn't even work right now (and Lockpick, since there are like 2 things you need it to open).

Practice and you will get better.

"Practice and you will get better."

Yes of course.. I finish the alpha 3 times... killing all enemies somehow! So somehow I will also finish the final game!
I don't like figthing!
But I'll do my very best!

I'll start the game again this Weekend, maybe using figther and cleric... lets see.

The default will be challenging but we will put in a mode which makes it easier for the less tactically inclined. We're also thinking of including a "Stabbey" mode

Re: social skills - I think a lot of you are forgetting that so far you've just been playing the beginning of the game where the majority of the enemies are undead. I just (successfully) negotiated via petpal and high charming ability with a very big *SPOILER* - she agreed to not eat me. I was too low level for her, so that was a good thing.

Exactly what I wanted to hear! Love having the option of talking my way out of situations.

Ha ha, I do have limits to how hard I like my games. I just happen to have had enough experience with this one to learn how to not die so much - even though I never save during fights, only before and after. I either win, lose, or get frustrated by my characters failures that I team-kill them all myself.

It's good to hear that there will be much more use of social skills, I liked the part where they were useful against Roberts.

Yesterday I restart with Knigth and Fighter. Without any healing spell! I reload the grab-chest until there was a nice equipment... I sell all to the bridge Legionares ... and then kill them to get my things back! Hmm not so lovly way to handle.

Let's see how they both work later in the environment out of the city....

Thanks Lar for the info. I finished all Larian games before! Only the final fight with the flying Dragon I never manage without cheats. So I think there will be a way for me to finish this game too.

Talking my way out of situations seems to be also a nice feature.

BTW: You can ask Arhu about the sheep in the grave before you go to dig this grave.

I can't wait to play the game on Stabbey mode! As for right now the combat is far too easy.

I don't know if anyone has experience with HOMM6? If you put difficulty on medium you will die in the tutorial mission. Weeks/months later you just know there is so much strategy involved to increase your win chances. This is the same with this game, I would love that suppose you didn't use the surrounding barrels or spell combo's at the exact right moments you just don't stand a chance.

Part of the problem at the moment is that the AI isn't working as well as it should. It sees through walls and tries to shoot through obstacles as well. Plus, it doesn't prioritize weaker characters. Once that's working, it should be a lot harder.

I'll never understand why some players in RPG's like to die in combat! Or like to figth again and again because it is nesserary to find out the taktic win one simple figth.
Look at this nice buildings, read all the interesting books, combine all possible items... there is so much to do, I have no time to think about figthing taktics only to kill some not necessary monsters! I like it, when they will die as fast as possible. More time to look in their chests!

Maybe menfolk need the figths in virtual reality... because there are no figths in the real life?

My taktic is to collect Levels, super-waeponry and superspells and all monster will die only if the see my figthers! I'ts only a game! Let's have fun!

Not all menfolks...

i'm not a hardcore gamer. I like RPG games because I can take my time, imagine the character I want to build (not fine tuned for battle). Talk to people. Search for clues.

No need for me to make the fight harder. I barely live most of them. I like when they are easy (not too much though) because fights are just a way to
1. loot more
2. make the plot go forward.

If I wanted a fight centric game, I'd play Diablo (which I like also)