Larian Studios Forums Divinity - Original Sin Divinity Original Sin - Beta Dual dagger wielding

How about it?

Im playing a roguish character and i really miss the possibility of dual wielding two daggers.

My character does the dual animation when he attacks anyway. But apparently he does the second attack with his fist... although the damage is seemingly the same as with the hand thats holding the dagger - with elemental damage too - if the dagger has any.

This is what i would suggest:

1. Allow dual wielding daggers and punch daggers.

For the double AP cost.
So if attacking with one dagger costs 2 APs, attacking with both should cost 4 APs.


2. Allow dual wielding Rondels and daggers-punch daggers.

Make the AP cost double too. I believe that would be 5 APs in this case. (or 6, whatever it is actually)

But in this case when a Rondel is in play - make wielding these two weapons also have a chance of blocking - similar to how shields have it.

Just use the same mechanic - but make the percentage a bit smaller.


3. Maybe create some skills that would improve this over time? Maybe include these skills and enhancements into the Way of the Rogue?



4. ]DO NOT allow dual wielding swords, long swords, bastard swords, axes, maces or anything else.


- just a thought...

I would also like to have dual wielding (and it has been requested very often now on steam forums). However, I think Larian said that it is not coming for the main game. So, let's hope for expansions or mods...

I guess I wasn't paying attention because when I tried out daggers on one of my characters I thought he was dual-wielding. I just assumed that one dagger equipped acted in animation and function as a pair of them. I mean you hit twice. Though honestly having your damage split between two attacks seems a huge downside given the way armor reduces damage in this game.

The appearance of two attacks is cosmetic only - one attack is performed, and the damage and resistance is only displayed as if it was split in half. If you miss, both hits miss. If you crit, both hits crit.

Forget dual wielding. I want 16 wielding!

What would peoples' opinion be if a pair of daggers was a single item that took up both hands, and default attack with them would be two hits calculated independently? Sort of a simplified dual wielding specific to daggers, that doesn't require you to find two separate weapons.

That would seem a little odd without them changing the graphics (on the dagger icons) too represent 2 daggers too indicate these are dual wielding objects.

I much prefer 2 separate weapons though, suppose I'm used to the old, put the more powerful dagger on the off hand too offset damage ratio system thingamajig.

Well, yes, I meant also that the inventory icon and the animation would change to reflect actually dual-wielding. Also strange, I always put the best weapon in the main hand so that any off-hand penalties are impeding less of my potential damage.

I guess my problem with traditional dual wielding is that you always end up with one really good weapon and one not-quite-as-good weapon, and I dunno maybe it's the lack of symmetry stirring up some hidden OCD but it gets to me.

I dont see why one weapon would perform worse - in this case.

Just because it has been done like that in some other games, in some other systems. i dont see any need for that here.

In OS daggers deal relatively low damage, and i havent found any especially powerful. the most was one with 50 max damage.

That is balanced by the fact that you perform more attacks in your Turn.

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I also dont see what would be the point of using one dagger but splitting that into two... animations?

It would be much better if we could use two daggers, a punch dagger or Rondel-dagger combinations - as i suggest. That way we can combine two weapons with two different kinds of stats as we please.

But - for double the AP cost. Or Sum of the two AP costs.

Damage can be further reduced for specific weapons if that would be necessary.

Unfortunately, it's not as simple as checking a box that says "allow dual wielding" or add three lines of code. At this stage, let's just say we're not going to be able to put in dual wielding for release.

I figured that may be the case.

Thats why i specifically suggested it only for daggers. Nothing else.

Rondels somehow naturally fall into this kind of setup and fighting style (but only as one Rondel + one dagger combo) - and they are weapons for rogues in the game so, thats why that additional suggestion.

I just want to make sure that its understood my suggestion was very specific and limited to daggers and therefore rogue builds only.
Because doing it specifically for daggers - as a rogue weapons and within rogues skills - seems like its theoretically possible. And it seems tome it would be quite nice to play.

(while the animation already looks like you are attacking with both hands anyway)

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While i dont see any way at all how that could be done for other weapons and builds - even if it somehow wouldnt look ridiculous like it would.

Just limiting it to daggers wouldn't save any significant time, unfortunately (not outside of animations, assuming the art isn't already there to begin with).

Once the work required to implement a dual wielding ruleset is in, then it shouldn't matter which weapons a character is dual-wielding (provided you're using weapons that can be dual-wielded). Limiting it to a pair of daggers instead of a pair of swords or a sword + dagger doesn't cut down on the amount of work. In either case you have to apply balancing modifiers and penalties, create an associated skill, etc.

I would like to see dual-wielding in as well, but just setting it up as a quick hack is not the best way to go.

There are no quick hacks that i would like to see applied anywhere in this game.
Level scaling and "respeccing" ones especially.


Limiting it to daggers WOULD save significant amounts of time because you can, basically, just allow two daggers to be equipped - and you barely need to balance anything else - if the AP cost is doubled. (baring any specific code considerations and adaptations of which i have no idea)

Which is not the case for combinations of other weapons - which would require rebalancing their damage outputs at the very least - which would require additional changes. And AP cost could not be simply doubled - either. Which would require additional changes and adjustments - which would require additional changes and adjustments.

Which is NOT the case when it comes to daggers.
Which is the reason WHY i suggested it.

Not just because the animation is already there. Which is a very nice additional boon. (btw, animations are one hell of a resource drain and even i didnt really know how big until i read one of the last Pillars of Eternity update)

No other weapons can be effectively dual wielded - because thats just laughable and fit for idiotic hack and slash games like Diablo - which this game is not.


In other words, the dual wielding i suggest would have class, style and elegance.

Of course, Larians do not have to do it at all.
Mine is to suggest, theirs is to consider and decide.

Thats how this business here works.
My suggestions ARE NOT demands.

Besides, i will mod this, so if they cannot do it now. I will. (probably, maybe, )

Adding actual dual wielding would require code work and at that point doing "just" daggers wouldn't be much less work than doing it for every weapon combination.

The "little work" solution to this would be to take a standard two handed weapon, give it the graphical appearance of a pair of daggers, and call it "twin daggers" or something similar. It'll function as a two handed weapon in all mechanical respects, and you might have to get creative with the model to make it work well with the animation. OTOH, this would also make it inherently balanced with two handers...

I dont know guys...really, you just coming in and just making statements about what coding work for it needs to be done is pretty pointless.
If we are going to engage in just throwing around empty statements this can go into all sorts of directions.

Like me saying you could just add pink elephants to the game. Because.

Its all completely nonsensical. Neither me nor you have any idea whatsoever about what and how much coding it would require. You know who does. So stop pretending its you.

The fact is that doing it just for daggers would be less work overall - for the actual reasons i numbered and because it would concern just one type of builds - the rogue skills - and that would be appropriate for the whole game - and it would play better.

While it would be more believable, plausible, elegant, stylish and cool.


You dont have to like it. You may want to have dual wielding for all other or most other weapons.

Just dont pretend you know anything about the code and dont make fallacious false statements in some attempt to force duel wielding for everything.
Cause its really annoying.

NeutroniumDragon has the right idea, although that's the kind of "hack" solution I was hoping to avoid... *if* a better/true version of dual-wielding is actually going to be added to the game one day (which seems possible if you look at ForkTong's response with optimistic glasses on).

Its completely pointless and horrible.
But, good declaration there. Again. Nice to see how far that previous statement about not wanting "hacks" actually goes and for what real reasons.

The point of wielding two weapons is... imagine that... - wielding TWO weapons. With different statistics, damages and effects.

Roguish build is one of the builds and skillsets in the game that could really use this to be more attractive. Instead of being limited only to backstabbing, and thus completely the same as any other rogue build ever made in gaming.

Which tends to become really, really boring as a gameplay style - in games that have hundreds if not thousands of combat encounters and you have to do the same bloody thing over and over and over.

Which is why Larian provided all those other Rogue skills and a separate Way of the Rogue specialization.
Which does look rather simplistic now, with just some very ordinary increases of some simple stats.

So my suggestion would be an excellent Way of Rogue unique skill, for example. Level two maybe?

Plus, my suggestion provides two different kinds of builds in this sense, one all attack and one with a bit of defense.
In combination one dagger + one Rondel. - while wielding two Rondels would not be possible -
In addition of wielding two daggers with different status and elemental effects.