Larian Studios Forums General Chat Chat (Anything) Criticism versus Insults.

Criticism versus Insults.



I think you are psychologically affirming what you deeply doubt.
Because rather than becoming objective and to the point you began to behave with a patronising tone and you repeated a set of disputed insults, which should most probably start a war not end it.
Therefore your statement up there shows the need for “it” to affirm the existence of the nonexistent, which is the clarity of a method that you have no idea about.



This is the true debate, and if you were correct then why did I feel hurt rather than feeling corrected?
If I did not know the difference then why did you not post the difference?
You did not read a single page in a single book on criticism, and your condescending statements do not shake my faith in my solid knowledge.
It is you who need to study the difference between objective criticism and insults in the linguistic form.
It is very possible that Kiya did not mean to insult me but she did. Perhaps you are correct about her intentions but I only read her insults and yours that follows here.



Your affirmation without logical rationalisation does not prove that she was right or wrong, and in fact you have just joined a very long line of defenders who did not study the problem at all.
You do not even show that you do understand the meaning of each insult in the list that you have so eloquently repeated.
What is the meaning of rudeness?
What is the meaning of a patronising behaviour?
What is the meaning of condescending behaviour?
In fact the true meanings apply perfectly to your post being directed at me, but they do not apply to my post directed to the “ToTheGame”




Oh! I shall take criticism when I see one.

I do not see any Analysis, or do you believe that there is any criticism without one?

Naturally, you have endorsed vulgarity and called it criticism.
I am quite grown up and I can prove it, but I must have fallen into a pit of kids who yet need to know the difference between pointing your finger at someone’s face and calling him rude, and analysing what he said and proving the rudeness of his words.
Naturally, you have no freaking idea what the difference is, saying a verdict does not prove it or create its foundation

If I told you: “My opinion is that your post sounded like a post posted by an idiot”.
It would be a very clever insult and not an opinion or criticism at all.
But if I told you: “On the third line in your last post where you said that apples are oranges, I fail to see how can such a contradiction be taken as a premises for you following sentence.”
I did not need to call you by names but surely enough every one reading my post shall know that you are what I would have wished calling you.



Your assurance is very comforting indeed.
Your insults were quite contradicting though.
Your intentions are very friendly but not towards me for sure.
Your logic is extremely wanting.
I advise you to at least read a dictionary before giving a lesson to a retired professor.

Rude = uncivilised and insulting.
You need to find out how a civilised advise being strong in tone due to frankness, is quite different from the vulgarity of pointing a finger and shouting “RUDE”.

Patronising = To show favour in a condescending manner,
which is exactly what Kiya and now YOU are doing.
Telling others that they are right or wrong in the form of a final verdict without suffering the trouble of teaching them the reasoning behind the verdict assumes haughtiness of he who gives the final verdict, like a judge in a courtroom, and the verdict of whom may not be rebounded.

Condescending = To descend voluntarily for a time to the level of an inferior. To lower oneself intentionally.

There are to situations here. One is the fact of doing it while another is pretending it.

I may choose to condescend to be friendly towards my students.
You may not pretend to condescend from an imaginary cloud to teach a professor, or it would be an insult.
Did you now understand the difference?

DAD, assuming you are 100% absolutely right and all attacks were completely unfounded, then those who did the attacking are beyond reason, and further discussion of this is pointless.

If there is some justification for those posts, for the intent if not necessarily how they were phrased, then trying to assign relative amounts of blame for misunderstandings and things said out of an emotional response between all involved parties is an exercise in futility and serves no purpose. Therefore, further discussion of this is pointless.


Several people were hurt by things that were said, and I think that was more to do with frustration or misunderstandings than maliciousness on anyone's part. No one is every going to come up with a universally accepted opinion on this (so further discussion is pointless).


PS - Criticism versus Insults
The difference is intent, which can be very hard to judge with no body language, no tone of voice and between people who are communicating in a language they are not necessarily fluent in. Any judgment on what constitutes a valid criticism and what is an insult is therefore going to vary between individual, with no clear black and white boundary.

I agree with you 100% on this Raze.
I swear I agree with you 100% on this Raze.
What more do you need of me to say.
I said so long ago that I am willing to stop but many did not.
I swear I agree with you 100% on this Raze.
I swear I agree with you 100% on this Raze.
How many times do I have to confirm it?

As long as everyone involved uses others involvement to justify continuing this, it will never end.
If you quit participating (that does not imply you are giving up or not defending yourself) then anyone who continues comments and references assigning blame for very long is going to reveal themselves to be rather petty.


BTW DAD, my first post was intended for anyone reading who might want to jump in and defend/attack whatever position or point, not just specifically for you.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />
I am buying your advice Raze.
You know I value your ideas, logic and wisdom.
I am stopping right here and now.


<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

DADyo.. you really started it.
Not such a good idea. I guess you ware to busy creating this to read my last post in what now seems to be called "The real problem" topic.

You've been upsetting, hurting, laughing at, joking about,... and lots more unpleasant things most of my freinds here at the forum.
And I really can't take this any longer. You're disturbing my little home.
I tolerated you being critical about Lynn (Lynn is a big girl), I tolerated you comenting on <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/riftrunner.gif" alt="" /> while you had no idea about what the dev.team had in mind, I tolerated you complaining about what the forum should like.
But maybe you noticed that it got on my nerves more and more. It's clear to all of us that you like use big words.
-Encyclopedia on the table, next to the keyboard?
You use a lot of words to say nothing. The only thing you do is upset ppl. And I can't take it no more.
When I say no more, I do mean NO MORE.
I can't believe you never even thought about WHY all these ppl ware complaining about you. You claiming to be so smart should have realised that.

I care a lot about this place, just like all the other ppl you've been looking down on.
Here everyone is equal!!!

You seem to drive on these negative comments and posts.
It doesn't belong here.
We take this outside the forum or I will burn your *ss so hard you won't be able to sit on it for weeks. (I too know just a tiny little bit about puters...just enough... you get the idea...;))

have a nice day
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Gee
Thank you Raze
I'll take my leave now.

There you go DAD, your first test (even though he has left already). <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" />

Just as a thought experiment, assume it was not intended as an attack or insult and ignore any perceived hostile/condescending tone. Does reading like that provide and insight into your or anyone else's behaviour? Assuming the points raised as at least partially valid, does following that line of logic explain anything? Don't worry, at the end of this you can always conclude that the initial conditions were invalid and you really are perfect. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
(just to be safe, that was teasing, not condescension)

PS it couldn't hurt for others to try reading your posts the same way. If both sides in a dispute can at least see where the other side is coming from, it is much less likely to turn ugly.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

with text, you can't tell the difference between seriousness and a joke.

there may not be many reading this thread as they may think, oh it's DAD doing his usual 'thing' again. others who do will find excuse 2 bring him down.

ok so let's say somebody did bring the professor down 2 his knees & make him cry. then what? what happens after that? where do u go from there? what have u accomplished? if GRUDGE is the first or only word anyone can come up, well u've just defeated yourself without DAD putting up a fight by managing 2 make yourself look stupid by way of intention.

friends, enough. i don't post as much as i like as i tend 2 study people more than reacting 2 them. this somehow saves me from machine-gunning replies that tend 2 distort in its meaning. i'm 'immune' to DAD's so-called condescension as i learnt that he speaks his mind & at the same time tries 2 educate/share his knowledge 2 us. ok so maybe he didn't do so well in that department but it doesn't mean he wants 2 spite us.

like i said in my posts in 'kiya?' thread, what went wrong between DAD & kiya should remain as such; between them.

let's not antagonise the guy anymore ok? we're just as guilty here, doing the same thing. yes, i'm willing 2 take the blame for the good of all. so hit me.

dang i broke my words. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ouch.gif" alt="" />

I'd say: let's just leave this behind us and start again

Very good. I hope that the issue is solved now.

One last advise:



In this Forum you are NOT a professor, DAD, you are a gamer amongst gamers, equal amongst equals. Your attitude of teaching anybody lessons doesn't belong here. Realize it or leave.

I didn't want to start posting here, but DAD you are going to far this your kick-*ss professor ambitions.

Your post (see quote in Marian post) does look like offence. I will not draw my sword and start fighting with you, but, be careful what you say to people you don't know and have never seen.

Can't you understand that you are making people upset, this as a result will turn them against you.

Calm down and stop this, please.

Hello, DAD.

I'm writing this here offline, just to keep my head free from online-time = money.

I'm analysing you right now.

You have come to this forum, as it appealed to you.

You agreed to the very Terms of this Forum, as you entered.

You agreed on being a part of this Community, as you entered.



This Community is special, because we have a common sense.

It's like an unwritten law, and I hope you have alredy noticed that.

This unwritten law - or sense - goes as the following :


We are here all equal fans of productions of Larian Studios and sometimes even of the company itself.

There is no-one better or weaker than another one.

Everyone is encouraged to help a fellow gamer here.

Because everyone is equal here, everyone should treat the other one with the same respect and politeness and honesty as one would treat oneself.

This is the unwritten law here, unwritten, but now formed into some words, to clarify what I want to say.

You, DAD, have entered this community, but it seems to me as if you have not sayd "yes" to this unwritten law of equality.

You consider youself as a competent man, and even more : As a Professor. You very often point out that you are a Professor.

To us, profession is NOT important.

The rule "treat the others like you wanna be treated" sounds - as it seems to me - as the following : "I am a Professor, so you should give me the respect I deserve."

There is nothing of equality in this sentence.

We all agree here that no-one is "more right" than the other one, and because of that, even highly heated discussions could stand here, because we all did NOT consider ourselves to be superior or inferior than other fellow gamers HERE AT THIS BOARD.

We could do heated discussions because we took a great respect or one another; meaning in fact that we surely said we would not believe in the other's point of view, but "let him or her go", because this point of view is a PERSONAL POINT OF VIEW.

At least as far as it is "politically correct" in the sense that it doesn't violate human rights.

This Forum here has a special feling, because anyone can enter, no matter what nationality, colour of handicap.

In another Forum, where I'm Moderator in, there is a girl who has only 10-20 % of sight at all. She has no difficulties reading the Forum there, as long as the font is extra high.
Her postings are FULL or typos, but we don't criticize her, because we kbnow she has heavy problems with sight.

I have critizised [fritizised ? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" /> ] people here when they have had lots of Typos, but at the point they explain me why they have this, I stop criticizing.

There are also dyslexic people out there. We've had one in the german Forum part. His or her posts were full of typos, but we didn't care because we knew the reason.

As a summary, I don't take care on the way someone posts - regarding grammar and typing.

You, DAD, are very often pointing out that you are a Professor. Well, why not ? But here, profession is not important, and you should NOT expect to get extra respect because of being a wise professor in a field. Here, everyone is considered equal.

You consider youself as a competent man, and even more : As a Professor. You very often point out that you are a Professor.

You very often say things, which seems to have importance. You say things and try to reason them, logically. Well, why not ?

But you very often say these things in a way implying ( reading between the lines ! ) a kind of "rule" "I am a Professor, so my own point of view is more right than yours".

To me this is a kind of arrogance I know from George Orwell's "Animal Farm " : "Some are more equal than others."

You often call Forummembers here "kids", implying they are not competent as you are, because they are not as old as you are, do not have the same life-time experience you have, and are not Professors in a special field.
With that, you are violating the unwritten law that everyone here is equal and to be treated as such.

We here have a god discussing style, because we consider one another not to be "more right than the other". Thus, we can have a high respect for one another - and treat one another with respect - because no-one is considered "false" or "wrong", only "different". Everyone is different, and so are the many points of view.

You are a Professor, and you act as if you still want to get the respect you've had when you were still teaching. Respect given by pupils.

This is no University here, and we are not pupils. Instead, we are all equal gamers here.

You could be a good member here, if you'd take off the hood of being a Professor at the entrance. But you don't so you must take the consequences of acting like a Professor in a non-school.

I still remember that I've had the Best Times of my Life, when I was making my Abitur : Not only we - the pupils - could freely discuss any king of Art, Music, Science, Politics and Philosophy, but also we could do this with our teachers. The greatness of that time was expecially created through the fact that - at one point - we were allowed to treat the teachers almost in a way as if they were pupils - like us. Without that distance and kind of wall between pupils and teachers, we could freely discuss any kind of the above given fields. It was a wonderful time.

Maybe you, DAD, have never had such a time. I would like to see this Forum here to become such a place of equality, with everyone discussing freely, without any walls around ourselves.

You, DAD, are an exception of this. You don't want to be equal to the others, instead you want to be treted respectfully, as a Teacher would deserve it. So you are different.

You consider yourself "standing on higher ground" (Song by The Alan Parsons project), and you treat us as such. We, used to treat one another just as ordinary fellow gamers, without any hills around us, feel not only embarassed by this behaviour, but also being provoked, even also being attacked. We want no king of the hill.

You are different, as you put yourself into such a definitive position of superiority with flows of arragonce flowing between the lines of what you write. For that you'll have to bear the consequences of a self-crowned king among a community of sheep.

I write this as a last try to explain to you our point of view, and our intentions. Any kind of king who acted not truthfulnessy towards his subjects, will be thrown off his throne. And we certainly don't want any king !

I write this as the last warning of the Sheep.

I too wrote this offline - sorry if i'm repeating anything.

I think you are psychologically affirming what you deeply doubt.
No doubt, DAD. I said crystal clear, and I meant it.

It's not because I don't pull every line out of a post that I don't "analyse". But I'll do it your way now:

This is the true debate, and if you were correct then why did I feel hurt rather than feeling corrected?
The word "correct" is completely irrelevant - this discussion is about your tone and your attitude.

If I did not know the difference then why did you not post the difference?
You did not read a single page in a single book on criticism, and your condescending statements do not shake my faith in my

solid knowledge.
That's quite an unfounded judgement there, DAD. Please, tell me, what books are in my bookcase?
And again, you still don't get the point: I don't want to shake your faith in your solid knowledge - it's not your knowledge

that's the issue here.

It is you who need to study the difference between objective criticism and insults in the linguistic form.
You said "attack" in the post I replied to - don't twist it.

Your affirmation without logical rationalisation does not prove that she was right or wrong, and in fact you have just

joined a very long line of defenders who did not study the problem at all.
Study the problem? You suggest that the line of defenders provide you with a file with analysis, conclusions etc

before they can criticize what you write, while at the same time you only need your faith in your solid knowledge to back up

all of your statements?

You do not even show that you do understand the meaning of each insult in the list that you have so eloquently repeated.
What is the meaning of rudeness?
What is the meaning of a patronising behaviour?
What is the meaning of condescending behaviour?
So now you want me to prove I understand the language I speak before you value anything that I say?

In fact the true meanings apply perfectly to your post being directed at me, but they do not apply to my post directed to

the “ToTheGame”
Remember I suggested you should follow the advice you give to everybody else? Because I think I just missed your logic

rationalisation.

Naturally, you have endorsed vulgarity and called it criticism.
Vulgarity? Kiya's reply to your e-mail? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/puppyeyes.gif" alt="" />

Let's have a look at that post you claim to be the cause of the mess you're in. For the sake of analysing:


You may disagree, but many people agree with this statement. And the following part is essential:


Vulgarity? Attacking? I'm waiting for some logic rationilisation here.


Which is very reasonable considering her previous arguments.


Now, you don't understand how anyone could criticize the mail you sent to ToTheGame. Here we go:

First of all there's the list of relevant and irrelevant achievements by which you seem to try and convince Erik (and anyone

else for that matter) that you know what you're talking about. First of all, the first reaction of most people to this is

pretty negative: they immediately get the impression some big shot, a "know-it-all" is talking to them. And most people don't

like "know-it-all"s. The moment they have this impression they don't want to listen anymore. "know-it-all"s are

considered each of the words you suggested me to look up in the dictionnary.
Second, do you really think someone needs such a list to guarantee credibility? As if arguments lose their value without such

a list...?

Believe me that this would be a very wise decision, at least until you have studied the art of Polling
Honestly, have you?

Rift Runner reached over 6000 votes, indicating that SPAM or not, it had the highest attention and a very dedicated fan

base, which speaks for itself as being most wanted. What you did to that poll was a perfect screw-up.
Speaks for itself as most wanted? Yes, by the few people in the world who belong to a fanbase, a fanbase that knows of the

site, a few people who's hundreds of votes stand for one person. Same goes for the downvotes. That's what those 6000 votes

proved, "most wanted" by some people who happened to be "in the right place at the right time". If Erik realised that as

well, he probably considered the sentence after that pretty offending. They tried to do something about it and you call it a

screw-up; you think they are going to say thank you for that? You never even "speak your opinion", you state then as "facts".

That's again each of those words in the dictionnary.

Is that enough analysing for you? Because I'm getting a little tired. To conclude, I'll just introduce another point at which

we disagree. You find me insulting. I prefer the word "confronting". And you might consider not to open a new thread about

that - nobody wants to read any of this anymore, and I don't think they need a diplome to respect that.

Fancy words don't impress me if they come in childish writings ...

As my good friend Robin Williams once said....... "Good Morning....Vietnam! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

"I love the smell of steaming words first thing in the morning" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

@dragh....unless of course they are written by a real three year old! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

LoL
Agreed Jurak. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

And you guys haven't even seen my handwriting yet.
I better start practicing right away.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />