Larian Studios Forums Divinity - Original Sin Divinity Original Sin - Mods Is Divinity: OS unfriendly to modding?

I keep stumbling across posts that make it clear there are built in limitations that make it extraordinarily difficult to mod certain aspects of the game.

Is there any validity to this statement?

As it is currently, with regards to modifying the main campaign, that's a valid statement.

There are several issues:
1. There's not really any official documentation or tutorials on how to use the Divinity Engine beyond the current videos just showing how to create the outline of the level; we haven't been shown how to script or change the in-game Story. This issue will hopefully be resolved whenever Larian gets around to making more documentation.

2. The game is set up so that it only runs 1 mod at a time. If you try to use two mods or more mods simultaneously, only the one with the highest priority (ie at the top of the list) will function.

3. Game saves are locked into the mods they start out with. By default, new mods require starting a new game to function. We've managed to work around this via save-game editing the Meta-Data file associated with each save, but the game itself doesn't support adding mods to existing saves in a modular fashion.

4. The Engine requires 'Developer Rights' to modify most things in the Main campaign (and even then, it saves to the Main mod folder rather than your own mod's folder). We've figured out how to modify existing items/characters in the main campaign through copying and editing parts of the RootTemplates and Stats folder, but those edits occur outside the Editor for the most part. Changes to anything else are ignored.

Has anything been said about whether that's temporary or is it permanent?

Given that we're able to check multiple mods in the Mod menu, I would think that it's a temporary thing until they get the Mod situation worked out. It'll probably be changed at around the time they get Steam Workshop integration working.

Luckily we've been able to work around that limitation with the type of modding we're currently capable of doing (RootTemplate and Stats changes) by just copy/pasting the different mod changes into a single blank mod.

More and more this has me worried. The modding community is genuinely trying. They're putting forth their best effort... but there are SO MANY internal roadblocks that they're flouding. The games been out three weeks and we have nine... NINE mods on the steam workshop (one of which doesn't even seem to be a mod..) and 18 on Nexus (which are mostly variations of one another).

The modding community is clearly floundering and the studio is remarkably silent...

Or on a long vacation... They should take care of the community if they want it to thrive. Haven't heard any significant news except for the added AI patch.

The reason I'm not uploading anything to Steam is because it downloads the Subscribed Mods to the wrong location; the game doesn't recognize them because they're in the Steam/userdata/ file rather than the Documents/Larian Studios/Divinity Original Sin/mods/ folder.

More tutorials would be appreciated though. I've been documenting everything I have been doing bit by bit on these forums, so that others can follow along.

And you deserve some high praises for doing this my good sir, that is the spirit, thank you.

To answer M.C, I would say, so far, yes.
Almost everything is ruguous, needs copying pasting files around, or lacks simplicity. And its very frustrating, because you can feel the power beneath it.
Maps are created, but I can't simply attach a dialogue to a NPC, even considering the tuts. and I don't want to have to figure out something as simple as that, I simply have no time to waste trying to reinvent the wheel.

Larian made a mistake so far IMHO. They are so used to their tools, and using them only for the main campaign, that they didn't realize how cumbersome it can be for virgin campaigns and modders.

However, NWN2 toolset, and others, were faaaaaar from perfect at launch, and got much better with time. Of course, there is hope things will get better.

So far, I can't use the divinity editor. So I am back modding my good old Rigale for Mount and Blade Warband.

I got hyped for this game originally because of the potentials for modding and I still intend to do so. But I am still playing the game and don't want to ruin that by learning all the internals.

So I think the MODs will come. Just be patient. It is just 3 weeks after release.

Well, I agree with everything mentioned above.

Just want to add to the list inability to mod variables of the main Attributes, Talents and Skills.
It seems that i'm the only one who keep complaining about this. But for me changing mechanics is the most important thing right now given the "difficulty" of the game. It's more logical to rebalance only the main Attributes without messing with dozens of spells and abilities.

Larian, we're waiting and hoping!

My 2, beyond just the tech difficulties, but the vision of what we can do.

What is the pinnacle of modding? A: Elder Scrolls.

D:OS probably thinks/dreams of how can we compete in that space.

However they have a totally different vision on what can be modified. It seems to me they see or want people to make new campaigns from scratch. While Elder Scrolls have a couple of these over 10 years, 99.8% of the mods are adding to the original content and that is what D:OS is trying to keep us from.

Imo it is a mistake. It takes a lot of time for a campaign. While many would just love to tweak and add to the current game. To me it's one of those things where you are look deep for answers and it is right in front of your face. I'm not so sure why they are so protective of that, it will make the modding community many many times smaller than what it could be.

I could be wrong.

I don't think they are protective as such, their engine is just not very friendly to modding the main campaign. They didn't need that feature while making the game.

But if you look back a NWN1 and NWN2 there lots of small modules/campaigns. I think this is what Larian has as a vision for D:OS.

This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about!!!
This is a Great Game already... IMO, it just needs to be polished in terms of balance.
And only then everything else...

I'd just like a detailed documentation of all the functions the editor has. Not even with pictures, just text and maybe one or two written examples.

Guess I'll add in trying to add create mods that change models/textures, such as modded armor, faces, or hair, is also a pointlessly backwards process at the moment.

Prior to version 1.0.72 it only work if you created a pak file that was built as an extension of Main.pak and only if you put it in a completely different folder than the one you would normally put a mod pak file in.

As of 1.0.72 they actually made the process even more annoying by forcing you to only be able to create such a mod in extracted format. And once again only allowing such a mod to if you place the modded files in the /Main folders, making it impossible to keep such mods separated or toggleable.

But probably worse of all, since you can't make such a mod in the traditional mod format, thus cannot load them into the Divinity Editor, you can't publish them on the Steam Workshop. Thankfully there is the Nexus, but still <_<

actually, on the initial vids of the kickstarter updates or whatever updates I've watched, swen (owner of larian) mentioned that modders will be able to mod the main campaign.

The question is, will they execute? What are the instances of preventing them from doing so? Is it because of achievements in steam? Verifying cache would do the trick. Is the path of mods when uploaded just messy as others have posted that is why they held it off for some time?...

If only larian would just sprout out of nowhere to answer some of the issues regarding the editor.

I really think they will do. They must be aware that the Editor could be a big deal. I really think they are mostly on holydays, and they will answer it in due time. An editor can have a lifespan of YEARS, it is just in its early infancy, however frustrating it can be.
They are not aware of the problems independant modders would face, but I really trust they will improve things with time.
I dislike them, I think this game is a pile of hyped garbage, but I must admit they work hard with the community, even if not in the ways I wished they would have been.
Lets come back in 6 month to see how things have evolved, and I am pretty sure we would be amazed.

Or modding is dead in 6 months... which to be honest is something that can happen to D:OS as the player numbers and thus community strength are quite low compared to vastly bigger mod communities, and you need plenty of smart people to figure out the editor, scripting, to write tutorials and proper guides. And If they don't play D:OS then they won't be modding it either.

And the way mods and editor function currently make modding a chore even for what little does work.... no co-existence of mods essentially kills any flavor or smaller mods...

I hope the next tutorials Larian posts involves how to get Character Creation working properly in a new campaign.... because unless someone posted it and I missed it, that's where I am stuck at. No point making a campaign when I can't modify and restrict character creation options without reinventing the wheel (script wise).

And by the way, when Larian said this is mod friendly I had high hopes that they wouldn't be using stupidly restrictive middleware like Rad Game tools for mod than videos ~.~ I guess when Larian meant modding they didn't mean the entire art... which lowered my motivation to mod from 100% to 1% ;/

Well, you found the thread already.

That's what happens when you come to a topic via an outside link ;P

And yeah, I found it!