Larian Studios Forums Beyond Divinity (English) Suggestions Better application of the thief/assassin?

i don't know if any of this was mentioned before but something i'd like to see in riftrunner would be a better application of the thief/assassin character... a good assassin should be as effective a killer as a good fighter/warrior, but instead of relying on using the most powerful weapon availible an assassin would use luck and ability to his advantage (hamstring special (basically the backstab in divdiv...), sneaking up on an opponent and actually backstabbing by backstabbing (which would cause instant death to weaker, low defense/resistance enemies or a standard 3x damage to tougher opponents), speed killing by doing critical strikes...) with a great focus on skills and a reduced focus on using the best weapon (perhaps even negative bonuses to using heavy shields or nonassassin weapons like broadswords/doubleaxes)...

applied correctly such an idea would add an extra layer of strategy and playability to the game...


feel free to add commentary or related ideas here! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

the dude/dudette will defintely need skills such as sneak(to get past/behind), blink/beam-me-up-scotty(for quick escape), smoke screen(blindness, quick escape, assasinate, higher level can poison, lower armour/combat/speed rating), boomer (loud explosive to induce deafness, stun, confusion).

will think of some more... .

As there are no classes, the thief/assassin as a class does not exist either. If you want to play as one then it's your selection of skills and how you assign your XP points that should do that.

"If you want to play as one then it's your selection of skills and how you assign your XP points that should do that."


what i'm talking about is the possibility of skills (and weapons) which would make a thief/assassin/(bard?) like character more feasable (and powerful) - i'm sure <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/riftrunner.gif" alt="" /> will feature armaments and skills that would make that "class" more powerful and balanced with the other "classes" than in divdiv but i thought i'd say something just in case - not that my words here would have any effect... i just like to run my mouth :P

If you really want to play as a survivor/ thief/ assassin in <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/riftrunner.gif" alt="" /> then you need to “rewind” the game some 40 years back and run <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />
There is no survivor class in <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/riftrunner.gif" alt="" /> and my joke turned to be a serious idea.
Play RR from its beginnings in DD and you have what you want but imagining a survivor to play with is not the same as making a survivor.

My impression is that RR is meant to be a mage ++.
A mage ++ means basically the hero is a mage with some extra skills that you may choose.
This is evident from the screenshots and whispers about fabulous magic effects and summoning dolls.
RR is basically in a rift-world which is magical by default and imps live there with the raaaanaaaar people. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

Capici!

I miss battle-mages, warrior and mages combined, ones i talking about was in a commadore 64 days (no it isn't a car). Not like bauldur where you had to take armor off. stats were different, battle-mages wear light armor like rogues and can only use light weapons and pretty much hit and cast (example is Dagger fall). It was fun being a caster and a fighter even though you are weaker with both sides you can mould your character into your liking with either magic or melee side.

*sighs*

"I miss battle-mages, warrior and mages combined,"

i heard icewinddale 2 does a good job of multiclassing, although i've never played that game (the original icewind dale which i did play had multiclassing as well but i personally didn't see the benefit of doing so in that game...)...

Thief classes have been implemented well in other games, especially Deus Ex and No One Lives Forever 2. Both games have freeform skills (like in RiftRunner. The only problem is when you come up against bosses. A thief needs a skill that can be very powerful against a single opponent. Their thief skills should be required to get past the army.

Come to think of it, it shouldn't be a Thief, but rather, an Assassin. Sneak in, kill, escape.

Not to forget Thief: The Dark Project and Thief II: The Metal Age (and Thief 3 in production).
Also games like Splinter Cell and a couple of scenes in Metal Gear Solid rely on stealth.

With Thief, the game is designed to be played as a Thief class. Deus Ex and No One Lives Forever 2 can be played as a Thief, Warrior or Wizard (Hi-Tech). I'd like to see RiftRunner have provision for any of these classes, including cross-class. If a thief could have skills that provide high mobility and a slow but powerful Backstab skill, I think the Thief might be worth playing.

I know there are no classes in RiftRunner, but to successfully play freeform-skill games, you need to at least specialise somewhat in one or two stereotypical classes. Hence it does have classes, they're just not rigid.

As classes don't exist as you mentioned, the only way to give yourself the 'feeling' that you are playing a character of a class is by forcing yourself to play that way. Everybody has the sneak skill, it's a basic skill now. You just have to get those other skills that match your class best and play in the style of the thief.
As far as I gathered it, the game enforces nothing on you, nor do you get the game to enforce this upon you. Only you yourself can enforce playing like a thief.

That's right. But some skills complement each other and others oppose each other. I doubt anyone here has bought more than one melee, one ranged and one shield Expertise. There's no point! You can only use one melee weapon at a time, so why specialise in five different types? Also, a Warrior doesn't really need to take the Deadly Gift skill. He has enough health and strength to defeat enemies without assistance.

On the other hand, a combination like Bow Expertise, True Shot, Ranger's Sight and Explosive Arrows is a very beneficial combination! When skills are presented, there is often a plan behind them. It's not mandatory, but it is of great assistance.

How far trough the game would you get if you bought one point in every skill so you could have a chance at any situtation? Not very far, not very easily. You need to specialise in something to get you through the majority of the game and have a backup plan to fall back on.

Some notes: - In fallout you didn't have classes still many people played thieves, fighters, scientists...
- In 'real life', there are no classes neither. There are skills and stats. A real thief (criminal), doesn't only know how to steal and break in: he might be able to cook a good meal, throw knives, play guitar, break necks... So you can create a class which has most of the skills related to sneak and thievery but if you give him a spell or two, or weapon knowledge, it will only be logical.
Plus D&D rogues are intelligent and can learn other class's abilities. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif" alt="" />

It would be if certain weapons would be highly ineffective against certain monsters.
A blunt weapon should be more effective than an axe, which should be more effective than a sword, which should be more effeective than an arrow when used on a skeleton.
If the effectiveness of wepaons on monsters is played out better then it could be interesting to spend points in more than 1 melee weapon.

So in the case of fighting Skeletons and Orcs, a Warrior would be purchasing Mace Expertise and Axe Expertise to complement his strength. A Wizard would use Lighning Bolt and Meteor Strike which draw upon his vast mana supply. And a Thief would use Hide in Shadows and Lock Pick to circum-navigate his enemies and get the goodies (for which he should receive fair experience, for avoiding rather than killing the enemies).

How do you want to play?

I assume it still requires killing the monsters to gain XP (besides the quests of course). So even if you are a thief and you want to level up, there is a need to kill. I don't think there is any XP to gain from avoiding fights.
Still you have a party, you can mix the characters in it. If you want to be a thief and the death knight is the warrior then adding a wizard would complete things. It's then possible to selectively give the skills and award stat points in such a way that it serves their playing style best.

There are some assumptions in this though. Afterall it's still unknown (to us) if XP is evenly distributed over the party, or that the one making the kill gets it, or the one starting the fight or whatever. How this is done will influence the playing style.

I would like to play as a battlemage

Traditionally, experience was awarded for solving a problem. In this case, violence is an answer. But if you can sneak into a fortified installation and escape with the crown-jewels, shouldn't that be worth an amazing amount of experience for not getting caught or killed?

I'm afraid you only get the XP for stealing the crown jewels then. A fighter would get XP for the killing AND for the quest. Like it is now in Divinity.
Unless they changed this for Riftrunner of course. As far as I heard there still are no XP bonusses for avoiding fights and solving quests that way.

Like in Lionheart? Alrik was asking about the same thing.

Yes, that would be my direction. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />