Larian Studios Forums Divinity - Original Sin Divinity - Original Sin - General Deciding to be an archer - READ THIS FIRST

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Define "Accuracy" for me please....

Accuracy means nothing more than how well you can aim for/at something.

You seem to not understand how accuracy and chance to hit are two completely different things and without chance to hit, accuracy is obsolete. While it seems logical that how can you miss a target if you have high accuracy, so let me explain it like this:

Let say you're aim is the best in the world, If your target is invisible or beyond out of range then you have a 0% chance to hit it which means you will never be able to hit your target no matter how good your accuracy is....ever.

The chance to hit is what matters when dealing with what I'm talking about. When you have a dex of 11 then you should not have a 49% chance to hit while the enemy is right next to you, and when you shoot, you still miss.

Well, to say the truth, the tool-tip isn't very accurate :p

Actually, being a rather smart dude and having some sniper experience in my past, I think I understand these concepts quite well.

They are different concepts, but not completely so in that they interact with each other. I would say "chance to hit" is the final numerically stated result after determing all applicable factors. One of those factors, however, is the "accuracy" of the shooter (or wind, or distance, or the spin of the bullet itself, or the rotation of the Earth under a bullet as it travels a long distance). A skilled shooter (ie an accurate shooter) will have a higher chance to hit at longer distances. An unskilled shooter (ie an inaccurate shooter) will have a lower chance to hit at longer distances.

Basically, the accuracy of the shooter determines your overall chance to hit. That's why we can state that accuracy determines chance to hit.... because it does.

You have a chance to hit with bow which is determiend by dexterity - this is you maximum chance to hit. However, this chance to hit reduces with distance - and this is where accuracy becomes important. So, if your chance to hit from a certain distance is too low, then increase your perception.

Quoting from the wiki page:

Perception

- Accuracy when shooting over distances
- Every 0.2 meters from the target reduces chance to hit by 1%
- Each point of Perception increases the distance before penalties due to range take effect by 0.4 meters.

In order to boost your damage output, you have to put skill points into "bow" (or something like this) under weapons tab in the skills list.

Granted!


Addition:

This is a good example. But lets flip it around. Lets say the target is visible and right in front of you, but you're a highly inaccurate shot. Your overall chance to hit is reduced by your poor personally accuracy.

But you're wrong because it doesn't work like that. Accuracy IS NOT WHAT ALLOWS YOU TO HIT A TARGET...EVER.


Using this example I'll prove it:

Except in the situation I explained above it doesn't matter what you're accuracy is, you're still only have a 49% chance to hit the target.

So feel free to jack up the perception all you want, in fact set it at 20 if you want, you're chance to hit will remain at 49%.

Debating semantics: it's fun and educational!

Dexterity determines the overall chance to hit.
Perception reduces the distance penalty which is subtracted from the overall chance to hit.

That's all there is to it. Why do we need a protracted debates on what "is" is?

This guy never listens to anything anyone says. Here is a very simple explanation of what accuracy is and why Armakoir's point is perfectly rational: http://www.mathsisfun.com/accuracy-precision.html

Because I'm a philosophy grad student and love this kind of thing. Sorry




Wait, are you saying that even within melee range of a target, and 15 in-game meters from a target, you have the same chance to hit (ie err 49%)?

In this game Dexterity is what makes accuracy possible with bows/crossbows.

In my example above, if you only have a 49% chance to hit the target, you can put put 500 points into perception, but guess what, you're still only ever going to have a 49% chance to hit the target because the only way to raise the 49% chance to hit in this case is through dexterity.

So if you do not raise that 49% chance to hit through dexterity then you will just about always miss the target no matter how high your perception is.

Yes, you are correct.

However, low perception (ie accuracy) can reduce that amount number further as you distance yourself from the target.

I think I see what you're saying tx3000. It's not necessarily what you've been conveying all along, but that's ok.

Scenario: Within melee range of a target, an archer has a 50% chance to hit. Points into perception will NOT increase this number. About that you are correct.

However, when the archer moves away from the target that 50% chance will degrade to a lower number at a rate based on the archer's perception (ie accuracy). Because this is a fact about the game, it is logical to say that "accuracy determines overall chance to hit" because accuracy does factor into that overal hit chance.

In short, you are right, and I am right... we're just talking past each other.


Now... the question is, how do we fix that 50% chance to hit at melee range? So, I return to my previous questions: what level is your archer? what level is the enemy unit? What type of enemy unit is it (ie archer, mage, etc)? And what difficulty level are you playing on?

Yes but I'm not talking about that. I'm specifically explaining to people that when it comes to bows/crossbows, accuracy doesn't matter if you have a low% chance to hit.

Archery is just a very poorly implemented and designed class with just way too many restrictions on it to be worth it to struggle through the game until you can get it up to a high enough level to be effective.

Every Archer I've ever created and used always has a very low % chance to hit despite having a high dex and because of that I refuse to use the class until it's been fixed.

I can deal significant damage with every class type in battles except archery.

Do you want to figure out why your archer's to hit chance is so low or not?

It doesn't matter why!

An archer that has a dexterity of 11, should not ever have a 49% chance to hit an enemy that is right next to them, for any reason.

So your answer is no. That's fine. I hope you really come to enjoy other class types, and I hope they are really effective for you.

That being said, your unwillingness to find the root of your archer to-hit problems COMPLETELY INVALIDATES your entire "archer's suck" argument in this thread.

You can't have it both ways.

Edit: Well, at least it greatly undermines it :P

Just as a side note: My warrior who has a strength of 13 sometimes has the chance to hit of 29%.

There is nothing to learn, it's very simple, an archer that has a dexterity of 11 should not ever only have a 49% chance to hit an enemy that is right next to them, for any reason.

Putting the chance to hit and accuracy aside, the reasons why archery is just a bad class is denoted by all the other reasons I posted.

Only when all the restrictions and the low chance to hit even with enemies standing right next to you, are fixed, will archery will be playable.


On a side note

Yes Sometimes...that's not the issue I'm talking about.

All the archers I have ever built even with a dex of 11 ALWAYS have a very low % chance to hit even while enemies being right next to the archer.

Sometimes is expected, but it's always low with archers every time all the time.

Armakoir surely the OP is reporting this perceived problem as a possible bug, using your link?

There are people in the world who simply cannot hear us in order to fully engage. There are millions of us so some must be this way, slightly autistic maybe but well-meaning on encountering perceived problems

See how I used stats there btw