Larian Studios Forums Divine Divinity (English) General Proposed Divinity engine modifications for DD2

Hi all,

Regarding DD2, my biggest concern is that the development team will modifiy the Divinity engine to be 3D in some way (much like the screenshots I've seen for Rift Runner). I am probably old fashioned, but I LIKE 2D graphics, especially when done as well as in DD, and would love to see improvements to THAT technology rather than see the game migrate to 2½ D with 3D characters on 2d backgrounds.

Before I assume this will be the case, are there any devs or moderators reading the forums who can tell me for sure what plans the devs have for the sequel, graphics wise? All I've heard is that DD2 is going to be built using a "modified" version of the Divinity engine. What sort of modifications, and are the graphics/characters going to look very different to DD's? I love the silky smoothness of DD's graphics and don't see any reason to change to anything else other than smoothER graphics and movements without moving to 3D ala Ultima Online LBR (I think that was the one, it was a local South African server run by players, for players, they migrated to a new version of UO that had the usual 2D backgrounds but the player and monster models all moved to 3D, which did NOT look that great in my opinion).

That worry aside, I can't wait for DD2 to hit the stores next year!

Cheers

I am old fashion like you and i like the 2D graphics in DD.
Thanks to Marian who is a great artist.
Maybe we are the only two old dinosaurs, most of people, specially young people want 3D graphics.
Sometimes low polygons characters are not very nice. And if there are more polygons the system requirement grows.



Riftrunner is built on an updated version of the Divinity 1 engine.
The characters will be 3D graphics and the world 2D graphics.

For Divinity 2, the Larian team is working on a completely brand new engine.
The graphics will be completely 3D and the game will have an important mono player option plus multiplayer options.

If i have said stupid things someone will correct it but i don't think so.

Barta

first, there are 2 games in development (and one secret) by Larian studios. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/riftrunner.gif" alt="" /> and <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" />2.

the information we get from the engin of <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/riftrunner.gif" alt="" /> is that it's a modyfied engin of the first <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" />
but the characters are in full 3D. this makes it easier to change the apearance of your armor and weopons when equiped , i gess...

the engine of <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> 2 will be in FULL 3D. and nothing is known of this game yet, only that it will support multiplayer.
and Swen said in his latest intervieuw:

[color:"orange"]PCZone.nl: Riftrunner uses an extended version of the Divine Divinity Engine. This engine offered a huge interactive environment. Can we expect an even bigger environment in Riftrunner?[/color]
Swen Vincke: The world in Riftrunner is not much more interactive than the world in Divnity 1. In Riftrunner you have roughly the same level of interaction, but this was already very advanced in Divinity. There will be ofcourse new objects you can discover and some object functions were changed. Bedrolls are now normal objects you can possess, whereas in Divinity you could only create a bed by combining haystacks.

[color:"orange"]PCZone.nl: Divine Divinity was according to many a great game, hence the many rewards. The most important point of criticism was the average graphics. Will Riftrunner have comparable graphics to Divine Divinity or is the graphics site of the engine improved also?[/color]
Swen Vincke: We have ported the engine of Riftrunner to DirectX9 to work away some incompatibility problems. The new engine allows to work with real time 3D characters, add more glitter to the magic effects, use higher resolutions and there is the possibility to zoom in when played at higher resolutions.

[color:"orange"] PCZone.nl: Are there certain things that you would have liked to add to Riftrunner but which will not appear due to one or the other limitation? Will these be back in Divine Divinity 2?[/color]
Swen Vincke: As told before there will be no multiplater functionality in Riftrunner but this will be present in Divinity 2, which will also be completely in 3D. For this [color:"red"]we have a top-engine[/color], but as said the multiplayer functionality is the major difference between Divinity 1/Riftrunner and Divinity 2.

this is a piece of the intervieuw, with many thanks to @Myrthos for th eenglish translation <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

you find th ewhole intervieuw here

with the top engine I'm gessing that it's a 3D engine that already exists. (maybe the dungeon siege engine? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />)

Are you joking ?



Are you sure of that ? I thought that the Divinity 2 engine would be completely made by Larian.

reading the interviews(refer to a few, not just the most recent), i think DD2 graphics engine will have even more modifications to support more/better 3D objects/animations.

the main reason for changing 2D to 3D (if i recall marian's words correctly, so marian can spank me if i'm wrong) is the ease the job of graphics artist in rendering new graphics & animations. in 3D, u can do it in real-time & see if it works or not & then change it almost on the fly. u cannot do that in 2D as the original or source of the graphics/animations is in 3D. marian will have to flatten the 3D object/animation to 2D then try it out. if it doesn't work, he'll cry for a few minutes then go back to the 3D drawing board. see? it's tough work to translate successfully 2D graphics.

graphics artists aren't the ones with tough jobs when it comes to game graphics. the programmers will have headaches, inherited from the graphics artists. yes, i think they curse those people too but that's another story. the programmers will ses if they can time things right between their codes & the stuff from the artists.

heck, i don't really know how things work between them when it comes to graphics but if u follow Peek-Of-The-Week in IGN, u'll know a bit. it's tough work & larian did a great job despite the graphics being called mediocre. graphics-wise diablo2 is mediocre & archaic. i was surprised when i saw for the first time there is water reflection in DD. i love it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />

barta & deon_du_plessis, i always prefer 2D to 3D any time of the day but if 2D means 3 cd's full of character animations versus 1 cd of 3D characters, i think i'll pick 3D. change to 3D for practical reason is wise. but NOT if it's just to look nice & go with the flow attitude.

maybe we should wait till RRR comes out & then see if 3D has justified its claim or not.

As far as having a 3 CD game full of awesome 2D animations vs 1 CD with the same amount of animations but in 3D goes, I'll take the 3 CDs any day. I understand that there are major practical differences between creating characters in the two formats, but I have yet to play a 3D game where the character animations seem as fluid as they are on pre-rendered 2D characters. If anyone can mention off-hand which 3D games have better, smoother animations than DD, please drop a few names as I'd like to check them out to see what you're talking about. Also, the point made about polygons is very valid, as low-polygon characters look horrible when compared to the 2D splendour that is DD. Looking at the screenshots for Riftrunner, I can't say I am particularly impressed. I am definitely of the old-school mindset that says if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Another thing - who are these people that say the graphics in DD are average? Have they actually played the game? Have they noticed the level of detail that goes into every scene, that nothing seems to have been made out of an RPG-kit (as Fallout and Fallout 2 did, there was a lot of repetition in their graphics engines)? I doubt it. Their standards are either very different to mine or there is just no pleasing them.

Having started this thread it's going to sound really stupid for me to say that the whole graphics question is rather pointless, but I'm going to say it anyway. I like DD for the story and the gameplay and the amazing character development options etc, it just so happens that the graphics are in a format that I have always loved, and have been done with so much love and care that for me, they shine. I guess I am not really going to mind what the devs do with the graphics of their future games, because ultimately they are the same people with the same ideas just making another game, and so there's a good chance I'll like whatever they decide to do.

So yeah, in closing, while I might have reservations about 3D, I trust the devs to do what they think is best, and judging from DD, that "best" is pretty damn good.

Cheers

hello deon, thanks for the reply.

though u have no prob with 3 discs full of 2D sprites, larian may have big headaches about it. u do notice low lacking are the NPC's animations. 3D solves that problem in that all the 3D models can share certain animations without rendering completely separate sets of animation for every character. so the beauty of 3D lies not in still image, rather in animation. which is why player characters in screenies for RRR may not look up to par when compared to DD.

the ones u want to crucify for saying DD's graphics are mediocre are game reviewers. u may want out check out gamespot, IGN, gamespy(?).

"So yeah, in closing, while I might have reservations about 3D, I trust the devs to do what they think is best, and judging from DD, that "best" is pretty damn good." deon

same here. however i won't say this thread is pointless as it clears out some things & larian now knows that u & barta prefer 2D to 3D, like i do. your opinion matters here.

I agree with you for all these things. I will add the sense of humour which is always present in DD and of course the music.
Everything is also well balanced, not too much quests, not too much fights.
I hope Riftrunner will be as good as Divinity.

Specifically about graphics, i am just afraid that the 3D low-polygons characters could be a little bit less beautiful than 2D characters.


I am confident in Larian too, they are doing the best to give us a great game.

I hope to see the demo of RR very soon !

Barta

Re Divine Divinity's graphics, I have to say that my first impressions of them weren't all that great. I think they came across as a mix of cartoon and real, which didn't work for me at first, but it fit the game after a while. It started looking like a painting. And after seeing some of the special effects, I was even more impressed, particularly the Fire weapon sparks. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Sometimes I wonder whether OpenGL would be better than Directx, because OpenGL - imho or afaik - gives a game a longer period to survive.

I mean two things ith that :

1. OpenGL is supported under other OSses, too, thus <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> precessors would be easiert to port, and

2. what if I want to play a game using dircetx 9 in 5 years or longer ? Will Directx then still exist ? How will the compatibility be ? Considering Microsoft's tendency to introduce new designs every now and then, meanwhile leaving other designs completely alone and unsupported ...

opengl still rocks & now in version 1.4, i think.

homeworld 2 still utilises opengl & yes alrik, anything from microsoft other than its name & domination is ephemeral.

i do hope opengl means easier porting for games.

If only for the record, I'd like to vote for the 2D graphics. I think I understand how many work they brought upon Marian and, in general, the Larian team. But god, were they beautiful.

If they can make 3D look even close, I won't buy RRR and DD2 but shares of Larian ! I'm serious !!!

Larian IPO now !! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />