Larian Studios Forums Beyond Divinity (English) Suggestions The Magic Staff of Moses.

Well, I don't think many people know where the name of one of the "Might and Magic" parts comes from : "Mandate of Heaven" is from China. One of the earliest early dynasties was overthrown / replaced by another one, "because they had failed their mandate of heaven". I read this in a museum about China here in Cologne. nfortunately I cannot describe it correctly in English, because I don't know the proper English terms.

By the way, Wizardty 8 has the Bishop as a normal class. Well, the christian relionion is very widespread, otherwise people in other countries wouldn't know what kind of "type" this is.

You can use gods in a game, but not God. You can use priests, monks and religious leader, but you can not use Jesus Christ just like that.
All the games I know that use religion, take a carefull approach towards a religion as we know it. Or at least you can't according to some.
The game that started the debate was this: Eon of Tears

You get to play as mozes and Jezus in this game.

it's so nice to have a staff named after me, even if it's crooked. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

some things are sacred or very sacred to certain people. religion is one of them. we can argue, discuss, dissect the issues but ultimately game developers will have to decide if they should be sensitive to certain group of people or just disregard everything and make money out of outrageous ideas.

true, there are 'god' games, such as ones made by peter molyneux(dungeon keeper, black & white, populous) but treading carefully while fleshing out the ideas are quite tricky.

Pellaeon. But I don't remember his first name.
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thank ye'. I haven't read them in a while. Need to go back to the old warehouses. Its probably barried right next to the staff of moses.

Right beside the ark of the covenant, you mean? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />
right besides that, and somehow we got the REAL holy grail, even saved some water, and a few dozen bad guys. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" />

And yes, we still do infact have the warehouse guy. Lately he brought in Divine Divinity for us!

This has nothing to do with the staff of moses, but I just wanted to say..
From the interview posted, I think the Eon of Tears game sounds fun. I'd enjoy playing a game where I am involved in the battle between Satan and God. The writing needs to be top notch though.
The game jumps through time...that might be a little wierd.
And..linear yet not linear? We shall see.

Thank you GoldyLocks for your kind comment.

Could you please explain to me why a Biblical tree branch that was used by Moses (the human) to lean on is a No-No while the Holy Grail in which Jesus, who is God in the flesh, used to drink in is Yes-Yes?

Aren’t they both just items that supposedly have some special features?

Why would the Staff of Moses be objectionable while the Holy Grail of Jesus is not?

Kind regards.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

the holy grail isn't just that. it could be anything. from divinit, its all different.

Hi, Dad.

I do very much like the idea of an ancient and powerful artifact, but would simply prefer to see it as being from the ancient past of the Divinity Universe, not our universe. The Larians have already given us some of the pre-history, and no doubt there is more to come in Riftrunner and DD2 which may provide plenty of scope for the lore of such items.

As Lews just mentioned, "holy grail" has really become a figure of speech; the term is used to indicate "any greatly desired and sought-after objective; ultimate ideal or reward".

Cheers. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

btw, i love your idea of summoning the devil and his minions...would have to somehow limit or restrict this ability, tho', or it would be worse then level 5 scorpions! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />

for me a holy grail is a big ol' good ol' computer

Thank you Rincewind for your kind comments. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

May I point out that the staff of Moses had been used as a figure of speech too or am I forbidden from doing that? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

“Lower your staff please, I cannot take it any more” refers to “seize fire please” and it is carried on from Moses usage of his staff as portrayed in the Bible.

Or

“Do not follow him; that man carries the staff of Moses”, and it means that if you follow someone in his ways you may drown in your own sins where there is no rescue, even though he seems to get away with it.

Or

“You throw your staff at my feet to eat my snakes”, and it means that you are playing tricks on me and while you act as if you offer me something in fact your target is to take what I have.

Or

“I wouldn’t live in that place; it is as if they were hit by the staff of Moses”, which means that that place is plagued by many troubles.

So both the Holy Grail and the Staff of Moses had been used as figures of speech in literature, so what gives?

They are still items of special attributes and that is why a Holy Grill filled with sacred water from a Holy fountain would banish evil magic, and in that case it is not a figure of speech but the very Holy Grail of the Bible used with dignity and respect except for being guarded by ancient Egyptian mummies. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

So what is so disrespectful about finding the Staff of Moses, which we may call the Staff of Wonders or whatever we wish, except that we borrow its attributes from the Staff of Moses and add to it extra attributes of extremely powerful magics?

I never insisted on calling the Staff of Moses by its name inside the game but I found it rather logical that it would not make sense if I offered the idea by naming this thread “the wand of Amanda” because I would have had to create a story explaining who Amanda was and what her wand could do. That is why I simply called the thread “The Magic Staff of Moses”. In that way I saved myself a very long explanation by rewriting sections from the Bible while changing names and dates.

I think that such an item is a great inspiration for all the wizards of fantasy history, because I can hardly figure out any other source for magic wands else than the Staff of Moses.

Kind regards.

er. I personally haven't heard any of those before.

and could someone explain to me whats with moses and a staff? IIRC he was old and needed one to walk. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

and the first or something curse of Egypt.

carrying staff is an ordinary thing back in the days of moses, much like some of us who carry mobile phones even to the toilet.

moses didn't really had much to do with the staff other than using it as uhhh... staff. it's God who puts up a big display of power that spooked the oppressors. the staff was just a tool. made of wood.

about the curse of egypt, moses & his half-bro aaron tried to convince the pharaoh to release his(moses) people from slavery & let them leave egypt. the pharaoh dude say nay & all egyptians had hell to pay for that in the form of plague. there's one that makes all water turned red blood & smelled like blood as well (therefore, undrinkable). another had locusts eat up all crops & infested the whole land. of course there were more but these are what i can recall. sorry.

thought it was something like that.

is that like the
Staff of Heracleum sphondylium, for the parting of the Hepatitis-C, <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

I prefer Heraculeum Mantigazziani. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

Look at "The Return of the Giant Hogweed" of Genesis - it's a REAL plant ! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

The most ancient existing biblical text goes back to the times when magic was related to herbs, spice and many plant origin items, the same with mirrors and magnets as they exhibited some interesting physical phenomena.

The most ancient forms of magic were concentrated in the knowledge of herb and spice applications to restore health and it was practiced by shamans of primitive tribes. That is why a staff made out of a tree branch is closely related to a set of items of plant origin.

In more recent but old days, British mythology did believe in spirits living inside wood and that is why the distillation of wood produces (an alcohol) called spirit that was first drunk as a spiritual-potion to alter the state of consciousness but today it is rather in common use to get drunk. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

However, historically, it was the staff of Moses that was the first item ever to be used in a story related to divine spells. The ancient Egyptian Ankh does not count as a magical item but as a weapon and spears too although they do use a staff with a pointed tip.

During the times of the Roman Empire when the Bible was first written the superstitious beliefs concerning magic, spells and demigods was commonplace and that is how the more ancient lore was enhanced to frighten the Romans or keep them at bay concerning the Jewish prophets. Even Numerology was a commonplace then as evident in John’s Revelation and the number of the beast.

If you do know of any reference to an object like a staff that was used for magic that predates the staff of Moses please let me know.

Kind regards.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

How about a divining rod, it is a stick after all.

You could use it to reveal hidden pools of water through out the game. Of course these would be magical pools, so one would carry empty bottles to fill them with water. I guess you wouldn't need alchemy to do this. This magical water could bring back your health or mana, maybe even both.

You have to start off small before having something so grand as the staff of Moses. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

But since the third game is going to be 3D, your idea of a magical staff is much better.

i think it would be nice if you make connections with other stories or biblical / historical passages (like the elephant of Hannibal, yes I'd like animals to ride). there where (as far as I know) only 2 (sting and potters ...)

and, you're talking about gods, some more interaction with the gods might also be pretty. a reputation with the gods, which improves by solving quests like "the curch" and if it is high, you can expect help from the gods, in the form of weapons or lightning strikes. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" />

me, the big P.I.M.P
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/exclamation.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/memad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/exclamation.gif" alt="" />